How much power can an na 3.8 hold?

[SovereignDragon]

Ok, I've searched and searched and can't seem to find an answer. How much horsepower can a 1981 non turbo 231 hold? I know some of you may ask why would you even bother but I'm debating on being a little different. All the people I work with are saying just drop in a 350. I know, easier and cheaper horsepower. I'm just a little curious as to what this v6 block can handle. I'm thinking about boosting it.

[hurst1979olds]

I'm sure there will be others to chime in. But I'm pretty sure they are they same block, just different pistons. The only difference between a Grand National 3.8engine and a grampa car 3.8 is the GN was drilled and tapped for an oil return. The company I work for used to build stock replacement engines and they did that all the time, take a N/A engine drill and tap it for a GN.

So in short it will handle the same amount as a GN engine.

[87regalkid]

I was wondering the same thing about my 87 buick 231 block before I swapped it for a sbc. After stripping the block at a later date I found the block ID code to end with 109, which meant that it was a turbo block without the oil retun port like hurst1979olds said, which could be added.

I found also that it has the same heads as the GN, connecting rods, and mine had a turbo crank and I believe it had turbo pistons. Anyway, I'm not sure about 1981 specifically, but some of those turbo blocks have been built to accept 700+ HP, of course with a turbo or two.

Good luck,

[DoubleV]

How much horsepower can a 1981 non turbo 231 hold?

Depends on what internal parts you use. In 81, a non turbo 3.8 wasn't built to take alot of power but I couldn't tell you exactly where the cutoff line is. My guess on how much power it could handle with stock internals would be 'not enough if you were trying to make enough power out of it to be fast'.

I know some of you may ask why would you even bother but I'm debating on being a little different.

Nothing wrong with different but keep in mind you can be 'different smart' and 'different stupid'!

All the people I work with are saying just drop in a 350.

Ah, the classic 'the Chevy 350 is the only choice' people. Tell em to go pound sand. Tell em unlike them you don't have to be like everybody else and run a Chubby 350 and that makes you and your car cooler!

I know, easier and cheaper horsepower.

Who cares. If you want to do something different then I say do it. When you're done your car will simply be cooler than there 'just like everybody else' car with their cheap-ass Chubby 350's. Now with that said, I personally ain't too keen on your current plan to turbo a 3.8 just to be different. Turbo setups can be expensive and cause alot of tuning headaches plus of course you'd have to beef up the internals to take the boost safely. If you're cool with all that and know your shit, then go for it. If you're a novice, then perhaps you should come up with a 'safer' plan.

Since nowadays 'being different' simply means not having a damn Chevy engine under the hood, then building an Olds, Buick ( V8 ), Pontiac, or Cadillac IS being different! If your car is setup for a Buick engine, build a Buick 455 for it. That'll be different AND it's proven to work ( and work VERY well ). Then when you're blowing your friends cars out of the water while maintaining perfect street driving manners, you can turn to them and say 'it appears my car seems a bit more torquier than yours no? I'm sure glad I didn't build that weenie 350 like you advised.'

[dragonmaster093]

if i read right else where that the pistons and rods are 350 buick pcs just heavier if true swap out rods and slugs would make more power. it wouldnt be neck snapping fast but be a big improvement also there are comp cams availible and both factory and after market 4brl intakes in my reading the 80s full size buicks had 4brls on the 252(?) 3.8 and were aluminum

[SovereignDragon]

For some reason I like the idea of building power on the stock engine. But then again once you get into cam, crank, pistons, and reworking the heads it's not the stock engine anymore. I also found an edelbrock performer intake for the 231 really cheap so I figured why not build on it just a little.

[rustyroger]

The turbo V6 had 8.5:1 compression, you might want to raise that if you want more (but non turbo) power.
The later series 2 engines put out 205 bhp in non supercharged models, more than the 200 from GN units but at higher rpm.
I don't know if many parts are interchangeable but the 231 has a reputation as a tough long lasting engine so I'm sure with some intelligent work you can blow away some V8 powered cars and say "its only a 6 pot" when then they finally catch up with you.

Roger.

[Peter]

if you wanna be cool and keep a v6 still, a later supercharged 3800 series would be just the ticket. They have a lot of power, a ton of power potential, and are rock solid. It wouldn't be the easiest of setups but it surely would be sweet

[SovereignDragon]

I have to keep the rear wheel drive. I don't know if they make the later 3800 sc in rear wheel drive. I'm sure it could be done with deep enough pockets though.

[dogshit]

My understanding is that the naturally aspirated 3.8s didn't normally come with as strong of a crank as they put in the turbo versions. In fact today you can buy two cranks brand new with the turbo crank costing three times what a NA crank costs. That said the 87 or some 87s may very well have been the exception as a last model often uses up left over parts. You can sell a used 109 block and or turbo crank today for decent money but you get scrap value for NA block & crank.

Yea I have never been of the follow the herd mentality not that the sbc doesn't have its attributes as does most engines. There is not much cool factor in building a NA 3.8 though unless you are building it to the hilt which is not cost effective at all. Most sensible might be a stout build Buick 350 of which a few here on the board have done. Or a Buick 455 followed by a big Cadillac, Pontiac, Olds, or BBC.

Cheapest possible isn't your only concern or you would just be driving whatever you could find cheap. IMO there has to be some fun cool different factor that makes it fun cool enjoyable to drive or you wouldn't be doing a project car. When I went/go to cruise ins & popped the hood with my GN or Caddy 509 powered 442 they always drew attention & interest much more than my buddys sbc powered chevelle in part because their wasn't 90 other cars with the same thing under the hood.

[81cutlass]

Page 8-10 on this thread is the best explination of making NA 3.8 HP. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/thread ... 734/page-8

Summary of it is that you need to make big compression to make big power. Making 300HP out of a 231 would be like making 455HP out of a 350 small block. 450HP out of a SBC is serious and so is 300HP out of a 231. You will throw a ton of money into a 3.8 to make power NA. Turbo is easy but thats just the way a buick head flows. Best Buick head is summilar to a mid range SBC head. NA 3.8 to the max is tough since its so small. Big HP per cube results in still not that much power.

SC 3800 RWD is possible. I built one for my 4th gen. $350 used 97GTP motor and $300 of accessiories, wiring ect, and $250 of parts to U the SC and you have a RWD L67. Its cheap you just have to do it yourself.

Pictures of it here if you are curious. http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/ ... 5QQtppZZ20

$ for$, my SC3800 blows my drawthrough turbo carbed 3.8 away. The drawthrough has ported heads, bigger cam, ported intake, worked over carb, 84-85GN headers, custom downpipe and pypes exhaust and 11 PSI nonintercooled on alky. The SC3800 is stock with a manifold back, tune, air intake, and pulley (10PSI).

If I learned anything on boosted 3.8's is that EFI is a godsend.

[beermonkey9417]

3.8 is nice, but the 4.3 is mo betta!

[SovereignDragon]

With all the reading I've been doing about supercharging a 3.8 to get some decent power it just seems like it's so much more work than it's worth. I think I'll just go with my performer intake, a performer cam, and a small 4 barrel for now to play with a little. It seems for what I could pay to get a good amount of power out of the 6 shooter I could just procharge an lt or ls engine. Plus big benefit of that would be being able to stick a t56 in the tunnel. I'm a big manual trans fan. I might still play around with this buick engine a bit though, just to see what I can make out of it.

[DRIVEN]

I like 81cutlass suggestion a lot. For long time I've thought that a 3800/T5 swap from a '95-'96 Fbody would make a great swap into a driver Gbody. They are incredibly reliable and get outstanding MPG. They actually make more HP than most Gbodys came with from the factory too. Plus, when you pop the hood you would get the attention that comes with an "oddball" swap. I'm sure someone, somewhere has done the swap but I haven't seen it yet. When you get bored you can start collecting parts for the Eaton upgrade. The resulting 250hp/300lb-ft would be no slouch.

[YGspider]

Yes ! A 3800 swap is something I was talking into consideration they can make good power and if you get a motor from a GS 1998-2003 regal with the supercharger thats a bonus. Some work would need to be done becuase of the FWD.