Went to get an Alignment... bad news

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Gonzo1970

G-Body Guru
Sep 30, 2018
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First thing is first -

Car has 58k miles, all stock. Suspension may or may have not been messed with... I say that because the stabilizer bar bushings and links are new (looking - for all I know, they're decades old, but look new).

It Sat most of its life, obviously, but was always on its tires (eg. not off-weight stored) in a climate controlled garage.

Steering hasn't been HORRIBLE but I know its worn (I understand by both understanding its age, but also driving (Shes a little "floaty" in the front)) and the alignment is off a bit... (Maybe 10 degrees, if that, on the wheel).

Now, I got under it, and tugged, pulled, yanked the tires, center link, tie rods... not bad at all, by hand... This was up on a rack, weight off.
I had no movement trying from 12 to 6 o'clock.. 3 to 9 o'clock was minuscule when I watched the components during the 3-9 movement (someone was moving the wheel for me, up on a rack - free movement).

When I say minuscule, I mean barely noticeable. I had to have him slow down.

I took it for an alignment, and the mech got under there with something a little bigger and started tugging on the components themselves (not the tires) and it all moved. Tie rods, center link... everything. He showed me, and I saw it. It took effort, but the movement was there with more pressure.

To me, this made sense... the parts aren't "Bad", they're "Worn" or as he put it "Weak". All things considered, this didnt surprise me.

Replacing these things isn't a difficult gig, as I see it.. Lift, Tools, Heat (its cold here) all available.
Replacing the pitman, idler, center/drag, inner/outer tie rods (new adjusters, obviously) isn't a problem.
My concern is the toe alignment until I get the funds to have a Proper Alignment done... (all the parts are costing me what I got, basically).

SO

Questions:

Whats the best method to keep the alignment as close as possible when replacing everything having to do with steering??

Obviously, you pay attention when you take them off.. measure/mark the old... new parts measured/matched as close as possible.. etc.

That brings up the other question... Is there a method to the madness? Replace 1 thing at a time? Haul it all off?

Old school VW owners align them on their own. Mostly String measuring, but some attach levels to the rims...

I will have to go around 200mi until I get the $100 for a proper alignment after this (95% City/Low Speed).

Is that just not enough mileage to worry about?

Get it close and run it for two weeks?

Caster and Camber I can't/'won't do anything about, I get it.. Toe is my primary concern.


What Say You?

(To include "While you're doing that, do ~this~ stuff")

As always, you guys are great, and thanks for your opinion and advice.

-Gonz
 

SSmooth84

Greasemonkey
Mar 12, 2019
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Best to do everything at once. With the alignment if u can't take it to a shop u can use the string method to try and get it as close as u can. Use a string on the rear wheels and try to get it as close as you can with the front wheels.
 
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Ribbedroof

Comic Book Super Hero
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Jan 4, 2009
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Pitman is a non-wear item (unless the stud got loose and wallowed out the tapered hole) .

200 miles isn't going to kill you if you get it close.

Frankly, I'd be more suspect of the upper control arm bushings (due to age) than the steering components.

At 58K, if the car was serviced with any regularity, most I would expect would be idler arm

I test steering components that have a ball stud by seeing how much movement there is when squeezed with a BIG pair of channellocks vertically.

There is a big difference between some wear and needing replacement. GM published the acceptable "service" wear in the OE chassis manual, as I recall.

There is the possibility that the shop is looking to sell parts and labor. Not an accusation, just reality.

Make sure they provide a before and after printout of the measurements. Be aware, many "alignment techs" at tire stores really have no idea of what a proper alignment is, they rely on the red or green highlights and assume if it's green, it's "in-spec", which is not the case if you don't understand the limitations of the system. Camber needs to be on the same side of positive or negative from side to side , and within 1/4 degree to prevent a pull. Same is true for caster (better not be negative!). Up to a half-degree is considered "acceptable", but not ideal. A car will pull to the most positive caster, and most negative camber. So, it is possible to have tolerance stackup that makes it pull, despite being "in spec".

Try to find a real alignment shop rather than a chain-store tire shop.

I work in the collision repair business, and have had to train techs at alignment shops (yes, even ASE certified techs) to get decent alignments. My employer bought the equipment and I did them myself the last couple of years I was at the first shop I worked in after the Goodyear we were working with lost their lease and moved across to the other side of the city.
 
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TURNA

Rocket Powered Basset Hound
Jul 24, 2009
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money grab......
 
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fleming442

Captain Tenneal
Dec 26, 2013
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I wouldn't sweat it. Also, how come waiting to install the parts right before the alignment isn't an option? I also didn't see mention of ball joints. Do it all in one shot.
 

rfpowerdude

G-Body Guru
Jul 15, 2013
656
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Palm Bay, Fla
Drive it 200 more miles THEN do the work AND the alignment, although, sounds like they are trying to make money off of the replacement of all those parts $$$$$$$
 
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85442/86buick

G-Body Guru
Feb 12, 2013
746
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Perth Country , Ontario
a 2nd opinion is required , that's a hell of a list for a car with 58 k on it.
 

69hurstolds

Geezer
Supporting Member
Jan 2, 2006
8,088
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There's a spring in those joints. If you crunch them with pliers, even NEW ones move. If you're a big *ss burly ****, you can possibly crunch them with your hands and get them to move. It's a nice little service trick these mechanics sometimes use to get you to purchase sh*t you don't need. Not saying this is the case, but make your own judgement before shelling out a ton of money on parts not needed. If you want to do it for peace of mind, it's your money.

You can partially rotate tie-rod ends with a little effort, but they should stay where you put them. If they flop, they're probably toast. If you can hear knocking noises as you wriggle the joints and such with nominal force, that's not very good. If you throw your weight back and forth on the tie rod ends, etc., you CAN get them to flex. I've done it with brand new sh*t.

58K miles doesn't mean squat. I wouldn't expect a lot of parts up front to be wore slap out, though. If the spheres and joints are worn, they will not keep good alignment. If anything's bent, obviously replace it. I've seen cars with less than 10K miles on them needing ball joints. Sometimes even new parts are defective.
 
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Bonnewagon

Rocket Powered Basset Hound
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Sep 18, 2009
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All of the above is true. For me the best way is to do everything and I mean everything at once, then the alignment at a REAL shop. Start at the Center Link and do it all, steering parts, ball joints, control arm bushings, re-pack the wheel bearings, everything. That way it's all done and you know what you have. This is a good time to put poly bushings in as well. Then take it to a REAL shop with a Hunter computerized machine and has an old guy that knows his sh*t. Very few young guys have ever done our type cars. Just drive it until you are ready with all the parts, replace them all, and get it as close as you can. Then let the shop make it perfect. Explain what you did and acknowledge that they will need to spend some time doing it from scratch, which may cost a bit more. My guy is great and my test is to drive away down the street with my hands off the wheel- it should go straight as an arrow by itself. Once right after I did all that I took my Firebird to a Great Bear for an alignment. They told me my day-old ball joints were bad and couldn't do the alignment until they replaced them. True story!
 

Macguyver

SOUTHSIDE MACHINE PERFORMANCE
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Mar 21, 2017
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Replacing old steering parts is never a bad idea. Years vs. miles debate coming. Not that expensive either. Take it it off in one piece (outer tie rod to outer tie rod) and build the new one the bench using the old one as a template. Ball joints and lower control arm bushings are a little more labor, but while your there are, upgrades will do wonders. Home alignment works ok enough to get you to the shop using the level and string method.

Mac-
 
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