Will These Front Calipers Work?

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motorheadmike

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Nov 18, 2009
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pontiacgp

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Those are nice calipers. I don't know why they don't offer to sell you what you need to use those calipers, you'll need 1/8 NP to a 3AN fitting (Afco part # 7010-0002) and a 3AN flex line with a 90° fitting on one end. For the other side you'll need an adapter. We used these to use 3/16 brake line fitting and a 3AN line to the caliper. You're local circle track store will have what you need


$_12.JPG



this is a kit with all you need but I don't think the 90° elbows have enough room to turn to be installed....

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/706-5...2&toolid=10001&campid=&icep_item=231325713282
 
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malibudave

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If putting these on the front, the piston is too small and will not generate substantial clamping forces to stop the car well. In most cases, aluminum will deflect more versus cast iron or cast steel. If you need a 2.0" bore caliper, I would go with the Wilwood cast iron caliper (link below). You are not giving up much in weight, but the rigidity of the caliper will be much better with substantially less deflection. I am not sure how you would save 15lb over stock with just one caliper. Amazon shows a shipping weight of 3.8lb for the AFCO caliper. Stock caliper weighs about 6lb 5oz. Wilwood caliper 2.0" piston weight: 4lb 1.6oz

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwo...Iron-Single-Piston-Floater-Caliper,24242.html

WilwoodSideView.jpg

WilwoodPistonSideView.jpg

WilwoodTopView.jpg

WilwoodBottomView-1.jpg

WilwoodPistonView.jpg

WilwoodwithPadInstalledSideView.jpg


If you are looking for a replacement front caliper, go with the Wilwood 2.75" diameter piston for the most clamping force, lightest. This is the best upgrade, other than pads, that you can do with the stock front brake system. Weight: 4lb 8.6oz

Wilwood275.jpg

Wilwood275SideView.jpg

Wilwood275TopView.jpg

Wilwood275BottomView.jpg

Wilwood275PistonView.jpg
 
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motorheadmike

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If putting these on the front, the piston is too small and will not generate substantial clamping forces to stop the car well. In most cases, aluminum will deflect more versus cast iron or cast steel. If you need a 2.0" bore caliper, I would go with the Wilwood cast iron caliper (link below). You are not giving up much in weight, but the rigidity of the caliper will be much better with substantially less deflection. I am not sure how you would save 15lb over stock with just one caliper. Amazon shows a shipping weight of 3.8lb for the AFCO caliper. Stock caliper weighs about 6lb 5oz. Wilwood caliper 2.0" piston weight: 4lb 1.6oz

Thanks, Dave. Funny I was on your site the other day examining my manual brake options. My goal for the project is making the car as light as possible. Trimming off some unsprung weight (especially up front) is going to a huge benefit to the end product.

EDIT - Just found this thread: https://gbodyforum.com/threads/metric-oversized-calipers.46442/page-2

Double EDIT: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...re-1978-88-GM-Metric-Brake-Caliper,25158.html
 
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malibudave

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From a weight standpoint, the stock setup is pretty light. You could go lighter, but you would be spending thousands of dollars with little to NO gain in braking performance and in some situations you may loose braking performance and streetablily. This is money that could be spend on the engine/trans/rear.

For the money, other than pads, you will get no better bang for the buck than a set of 2.75" Wilwood calipers. There is no caliper that will bolt on to the stock system that gives you more clamping force, rigidity, and weight reduction than this caliper. I will get flamed for this, but a Wilwood caliper swap is a better upgrade than the Blazer spindle/brake conversion when using the stock power boosted braking system, in my opinion.

That being said, there is little to be gained with using the Wilwood 2.75" caliper and manual brakes. I usually recommend staying with a stock size caliper with manual brakes and going with a 7/8" bore master cylinder. If you upgrade to the 2.75" Wilwood caliper, you have to go up in master cylinder cylinder bore size to supply the volume of brake fluid needed that the larger bore caliper requres. By doing this, you loose line pressure which reduces clamping force.

2.75" Wilwood Caliper and 24mm bore master cylinder: 1001 ft/lb of rotor torque
2.5" stock caliper and 7/8" bore master cylinder: 967 ft/lb of rotor torque

The slight gain in clamping force and weight reduction is not worth the extra $100-$200 spent on calipers along with a manual brake conversion, in my opinion.

A manual brake conversion is about a 9lb weight saving.

If keeping the vacuum booster setup, you may need to increase the size of the master cylinder with the 2.75" Wilwood caliper as they may become "touchy" with the stock 24mm bore power boosted master cylinder. With a boosted system, it is more about getting a good feel as the booster will give you the clamping forces you need to lock up the brakes.

Bottom line is what is the intended purpose of the wagon. Drag only, autocross, cruising, strip/street?

Hope my ramblings made sense.
 
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motorheadmike

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Nov 18, 2009
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From a weight standpoint, the stock setup is pretty light. You could go lighter, but you would be spending thousands of dollars with little to NO gain in braking performance and in some situations you may loose braking performance and streetablily. This is money that could be spend on the engine/trans/rear.

For the money, other than pads, you will get no better bang for the buck than a set of 2.75" Wilwood calipers. There is no caliper that will bolt on to the stock system that gives you more clamping force, rigidity, and weight reduction than this caliper. I will get flamed for this, but a Wilwood caliper swap is a better upgrade than the Blazer spindle/brake conversion when using the stock power boosted braking system, in my opinion.

That being said, there is little to be gained with using the Wilwood 2.75" caliper and manual brakes. I usually recommend staying with a stock size caliper with manual brakes and going with a 7/8" bore master cylinder. If you upgrade to the 2.75" Wilwood caliper, you have to go up in master cylinder cylinder bore size to supply the volume of brake fluid needed that the larger bore caliper requres. By doing this, you loose line pressure which reduces clamping force.

2.75" Wilwood Caliper and 24mm bore master cylinder: 1001 ft/lb of rotor torque
2.5" stock caliper and 7/8" bore master cylinder: 967 ft/lb of rotor torque

The slight gain in clamping force and weight reduction is not worth the extra $100-$200 spent on calipers along with a manual brake conversion, in my opinion.

A manual brake conversion is about a 9lb weight saving.

If keeping the vacuum booster setup, you may need to increase the size of the master cylinder with the 2.75" Wilwood caliper as they may become "touchy" with the stock 24mm bore power boosted master cylinder. With a boosted system, it is more about getting a good feel as the booster will give you the clamping forces you need to lock up the brakes.

Bottom line is what is the intended purpose of the wagon. Drag only, autocross, cruising, strip/street?

Hope my ramblings made sense.

Makes perfect sense. I am not worried about the expense of replacing the calipers or dumping the brake booster (replacing crusty stock parts without "upgrading" is a pretty rare occurrence for me). However, that +/-15lbs really helps get me to my ultimate goal of a sub-3000lb race weight. This is a drag-centric build with some streetability mixed in - call it 80/20. That being said I will not sacrifice safety for outright performance.

FWIW, I had great success using B-body calipers when I auto-x'd my Turbo T using Hawk HP+ pads. I think they bit harder than the LS1 calipers I have on the wagon now.
 

pontiacgp

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FWIW, I had great success using B-body calipers when I auto-x'd my Turbo T using Hawk HP+ pads. I think they bit harder than the LS1 calipers I have on the wagon now.

The B body calipers use the same pads as the 2nd gen Camaro. I use the 2nd gen spindles, caliper and rotor on my GP and use the EBC yellow pads which works great even cold but really grab when they heat up.
 

motorheadmike

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Nov 18, 2009
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That is interesting. Beyond the calipers do the 2nd Gen spindles have any benefits?
 

pontiacgp

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Mar 31, 2006
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Kitchener, Ontario
That is interesting. Beyond the calipers do the 2nd Gen spindles have any benefits?

with the F body spindles they are tall spindles which helps me to set the upper ball joint higher than the cross shaft on the upper control arm, the rotor is 11" which is smaller than the B body rotor. The larger B rotor has more rotating mass than the F body but the F body with the caliper sitting closer to the center of the rotor has less leverage on the rotor so I think it's a trade off. The B body rotor also comes in two bolt pattern, 5 x 4.75 and 5 x 5 which helps if you want to use a 9" rear you won't have to change the bolt pattern. I use solid rotors since that gives the pads the most material they can work with. The cross drilled rotors are not needed since the pads don't give off gases that can hinder braking and with crossed drilled the rotor has hot spots which can cause spider cracks spreading out from the drilled holes.
 
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malibudave

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The LS1 Camaro caliper actually has almost the same piston area as a 2.5” diameter piston metric caliper. So the clamping forces of the calipers are about the same. The real advantage to the LS1 brake setup is the 12x1.25” rotor.

The B-body spindle and brake swap gets a bad wrap for its perceived bump steer issues, but for the money, you cannot beat the braking performance of this setup because of its huge 2.98” single piston caliper. This is basically a 1/2 ton truck caliper. It has a 41.5% increase in piston area over the LS1 Camaro caliper with roughly the same diameter rotor.

With a 1.0” bore master cylinder, the rotor torque of the LS1 setup is 846 ft/lb. The B-body setup is 1185 ft/lb. That’s a 40% increase in rotor torque.

The LS1 caliper most likely deflects more because it is aluminum caliper going over a 1.25” thick rotor. This will reduce braking effectiveness. The B-body caliper is made out of cast iron and is heavier, it will deflect less especially going over a thinner 1.1” thick B-body rotor.

There is no advantage to a 2nd Gen Camaro spindle. A stock g-body spindle/rotor/and caliper will be lighter than the f-body.

Article below is about reducing weight with lighter weight rotors, calipers, and fabbed dropped spindles. Article states about 13lbs of weight can be dropped.

http://www.chevyhardcore.com/projec...ping-for-the-street-with-new-brakes-spindles/
 
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