fast-fill master cylinder?

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TRX

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Aug 20, 2009
31
4
8
Central Arkansas
The step bore design (fast fill) master cylinder is only used on the front brakes

I thought you were wrong about that, but held my tongue until I could examine the cutaway drawing again. I thought the purpose of the step bore was to push the working pistons forward quickly in order to cut off the fill/equalizer ports going to the reservoir; the cylinder can't build pressure until the ports are blocked. And since both pistons are mechanically or hydraulically coupled together, both the front and rear ports would be cut off at the same time.

Instead, at least by the drawing I'm looking at http://www.aa1car.com/library/brake_master_cylinder.htm the step bore and working bore are directly connected just below the reservoir through their respective fill ports. There's a check valve called a "fluid control valve" that blocks the opening to the reservoir so the step bore pressurizing the working bore instead of just making a fountain in the reservoir.

So, the fast-fill function only works on the rear working piston. You were right.

*Somewhere* I had read that the fast fill / step bore / quick take-up cylinders were used to compensate for pad knockback on cars with C-clip rear axles. I've found some stuff about pad knockback on the web, but nothing linking it to fast-fill MCs.

I guess I need to get my hat and bullwhip and find out where the rear disc bits are hiding, and see if they're fixed or floating. I think I saw one of the rotors over by the welding bench the other day...
 

jimsmonte80

Apprentice
Aug 22, 2011
63
17
8
If you are using a vacuum boosted brake system on your g-body, all of the master cylinders will be at an angle because of the angle of the firewall. The plastic reservoir may flat on top, but the cylinder will be pointing up from the firewall at an angle unless your running an aftermarket manual brake adapter that levels out the master cylinder.

Basically the S10 step bore (fast fill) master cylinder housing is the same as the 1982 and up g-body vacuum boosted step bore master cylinder housing. Most of the power boosted versions of the S10 and 1982 and up g-body step bore master cylinders are the same step bores of 24mm (15/16") pressure bore and 36mm (roughly 1.5") volume bore. The manual brake S-10 step bore (fast fill) master cylinder came with a 24mm pressure bore and a 31.6mm volume bore and was also used on some early power boosted g-body cars.

The step bore design (fast fill) is used for LOW drag calipers which require the extra volume of the larger bore to fill the LOW drag calipers. LOW drag calipers retract away from the rotor more that a normal caliper and require this extra volume to push the brake pads back up against the rotor. The step bore design (fast fill) master cylinder is only used on the front brakes (rear port of master cylinder closest to firewall). Front port that goes to the rear brakes will only use the pressure bore size of 24mm. From my experience, any remanufactured caliper is rebuilt to NON low drag (normal) caliper standards and do not require a step bore master cylinder. Any new calipers, that you can find, are also rebuilt to normal, NON low drag standards.

The other difference between the S10 step bore master cylinder and g-body step bore master cylinder is the reservoir. Since the S10 firewall is flat and the g-body firewall is at an angle, there are two different reservoirs to compensate for the different angle and put both lids of the reservoir flat with the ground. The reservoirs are interchangeable between g-body and S10 master cylinders and most likely b-body step bore master cylinders.

Using a 24mm bore master cylinder with large b-body calipers and vacuum boosted assist will give you super sensitive brakes with no brake feel and very, very, very easy lockup. You will most likely like need to use a b-body master cylinder to use with the b-body brakes to get a good pedal feel and easier modulation for the brakes. If you want to run a step bore (fast fill) the b-body step bores have a 1-1/8" pressure bore and a 40mm volume bore. Match this master cylinder to the b-body booster (see conversion to g-body on the web), b-body front brakes, and you will have more brakes than any tire combination that you can put on your car can handle.

Compared to earlier g-body strait bore (normal) master cylinders (1978-1981), the step bore master cylinders are HUGE in size. All step bore master cylinders came from the factory made in aluminum with a plastic reservoir. ALL new ones are cast iron with plastic reservoirs and as heavy or heavier than the 70s cast iron master cylinders.

Also a booster for an earlier strait bore (normal) master cylinder will not work with a step bore master cylinder as the housing is too large to fit on the earlier booster.

When bleeding step bore master cylinders, I suggest getting a syringe type bleeder to help bleed a step bore master cylinder. The step bore master cylinder has a 100 lbft bypass valve that transitions from the volume bore down to the pressure bore during braking. This bypass valve can hold air and is hard to bleed with the normal bench bleeding procedures. The best way to bench bleed the master cylinder is to use a syringe to push brake fluid back up through the master cylinders outlets up to the reservoir removing the air from the master cylinder's bypass valve. After I use the syringe bleeding process, I then plug the outlets with 1/2-20 inverted flare plugs for the rear port (front brakes) and 9/16-18 inverted flare plugs for the front port (rear brakes) and cycle the master cylinder piston until it is rock hard and does not move more than a 1/16 of an inch. When the piston becomes rock hard and does not move, I hold pressure on the piston of the master cylinder for 45 seconds and see if the pressure holds and the piston does not move. If the piston moves and starts to slowly sink down the bore, you have a bad master cylinder. If find the plug method of bleeding is better than the recirculating hose method because you can test if the master cylinder is good before you bolt it up to the car and bleed the rest of the system.

Hope this helps.

Sorry for a late posting on an old thread, but this would be the correct spot to ask. I have a 1980 Monte that I am looking to change out the MC due to the pedal hitting the floor. I was looking to upgrade since I need to change the MC anyway. I could swap my MC with a 24mm bore to a step-bore 28.6mm/40mm bore from a B-body along with the B-body booster. I figure with stock brakes, this should give me more braking power with a little more effort. Is this a fair assessment? What if I used the B-body MC with a G-body (82-88) booster? Would this decrease my power braking effort by using the G-body booster with the B-body Master? From what I know, the booster mounting to the firewall and the lines should all connect easy.
 

manualbrakes.com

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Feb 11, 2016
24
19
3
Sorry for a late posting on an old thread, but this would be the correct spot to ask. I have a 1980 Monte that I am looking to change out the MC due to the pedal hitting the floor. I was looking to upgrade since I need to change the MC anyway. I could swap my MC with a 24mm bore to a step-bore 28.6mm/40mm bore from a B-body along with the B-body booster. I figure with stock brakes, this should give me more braking power with a little more effort. Is this a fair assessment? What if I used the B-body MC with a G-body (82-88) booster? Would this decrease my power braking effort by using the G-body booster with the B-body Master? From what I know, the booster mounting to the firewall and the lines should all connect easy.

I would go with the b-body 12" dual diaphragm booster over any of the g-body boosters. I would try your brake setup with the b-body booster and master. There may be a little more effort, but the larger bore master cylinder will be offset by increased leverage of the larger b-body booster. This setup may have a little better pedal "feel" with better modulation by the driver.

If the effort is to high for your liking, EITHER you can downsize the master cylinder OR upsize your caliper to the larger 2.75" piston caliper from Wilwood. Either one of these options will increase the clamping force at the caliper, but doing both of these will most likely make the brake overly sensitive. I personally would do the Wilwood caliper upgrade over a smaller master cylinder.
 

jimsmonte80

Apprentice
Aug 22, 2011
63
17
8
I would go with the b-body 12" dual diaphragm booster over any of the g-body boosters. I would try your brake setup with the b-body booster and master. There may be a little more effort, but the larger bore master cylinder will be offset by increased leverage of the larger b-body booster. This setup may have a little better pedal "feel" with better modulation by the driver.

If the effort is to high for your liking, EITHER you can downsize the master cylinder OR upsize your caliper to the larger 2.75" piston caliper from Wilwood. Either one of these options will increase the clamping force at the caliper, but doing both of these will most likely make the brake overly sensitive. I personally would do the Wilwood caliper upgrade over a smaller master cylinder.

The link below shows him keeping the G-body master cylinder versus swapping in a B-body master along with the booster. Knowing that the B-body master would be perfect for this upgrade along side the upgraded B-body booster, I just could see why that it wasn't part of the upgrade.

http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=757283&page=1

I did not know that wildwood made upgraded calipers that did not involve cutting and modifying the spindles. That is good to know. Thank You.
 
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