No, unfortunately I have no records to refute that information, just my word which means squat on the WWW. :lol:
As you and the Hemmings Article stated, "most came equipped with...", but it obviously implied not all were, possibly more if you want to read into that a bit. As with many articles & "General Knowledge" involving 80's era muscle, there is a lot of misinformation out there. A recent issue of Hemmings featured the Daytona 500 Trans Am. There were several glaring problems with the feature car and some of the "Factual" information Hemmings provided wasn't correct. "Simo" and "DT500" are two of the leading '83 Daytona Guru's and made much light of the errors. They do make mistakes and readily admit to it in their corrections dept. Another car seemingly made mythical were Monte's & Cutlass's equipped with the first version of Buick Turbo 3.8. They were pigs, like their early Turbo Buick kin, and that's why they didn't last long. but they exist none-the-less.
"3rd edition of The Standard Guide to American Muscle Cars a Supercar Source Book 1960-2000"
I have his 4th Edition, it is pretty much the same info, adds a few cars, but it still omits a bunch of the notable '74 to '85 Pontiac milestones and definately has errors throughout. One notable one you mentioned was "Mechanically, the LG4 305-cid Chevy small block V-8 was rated at 165 hp, up 15 from the regular 305 in the Grand Prix."
Fact: All 1987 LG4 305ci: (VIN engine suffix "H"), 9.3:1, 165hp @ 4400, 245tq @ 2800, 4bbl E4ME Q-jet. The correct info is that hp was up 10-15hp in 1987 from the 1986 LG4 ratings, but actually there's ZERO differences in the engines. The only things that could account for that is use of the L69 exhaust system or a simple typo. An LG4 is an LG4 no matter what its in. These cars were somewhat hand-built on the line so its possible that certain "goodies" were added, but unlikely. Only the Monte SS got the L69 HO and was it rated at 180hp/190hp, (VIN engine suffix "G").
It is meant to be a Guide, as the foreword states, and is clearly not a "Red Book" for authentification and "Correct" info. No disrespect to him or you, but that guide covers over 300 cars that were made by every American manufacturer, built over a 40 year time-frame, and all "qualified" by the editor. Real verifications need to be made using PHS, a 2+2 Registry, all of the original Pontiac brochures, and any PMD Service/Dealer Bulletins.
I was heavily involved in ACES, American Chevelle Enthusiast Society in the early/mid 90's. There was a huge call for option verifications, paint/chalk markings, build sheets, etc for the '68-'72 Chevelle's, El Camino's, & Monte Carlo's to create the Chevelle Red Book. This was daunting because the internet was AOL in 3 colors and slow as hell, everything revolved around phone calls, fax, snail mail, and real photo's, so I am fully aware of what is involved in the research and info gathering. My point is that there just hasn't been a serious attempt to verify all of the 2+2 info yet. Does anyone even know their build time-frame & vin build sequence?
I have no problem with you questioning me, and personally deem it quite appropriate. The issue here is that until all of the things I stated above are actually done, refering to a Hemmings Muscle article and a Guide covering some 300 "Muscle Cars" as qualifiers of data will only cause future mayhem for restorers and the 2+2 history, more so now that Pontiac is dead. Again, these cars were rushed thru production for reasons stated above. I am willing to bet that there was a lot of things "overlooked" just to get them out the door. These cars, like the '81-'84 Recaro T/A's were pretty much forgotten until recently. Now they are being rediscovered and this is where owners such as yourself need to get together and start gathering correct info so these kinds of issues are resolved.
As you and the Hemmings Article stated, "most came equipped with...", but it obviously implied not all were, possibly more if you want to read into that a bit. As with many articles & "General Knowledge" involving 80's era muscle, there is a lot of misinformation out there. A recent issue of Hemmings featured the Daytona 500 Trans Am. There were several glaring problems with the feature car and some of the "Factual" information Hemmings provided wasn't correct. "Simo" and "DT500" are two of the leading '83 Daytona Guru's and made much light of the errors. They do make mistakes and readily admit to it in their corrections dept. Another car seemingly made mythical were Monte's & Cutlass's equipped with the first version of Buick Turbo 3.8. They were pigs, like their early Turbo Buick kin, and that's why they didn't last long. but they exist none-the-less.
"3rd edition of The Standard Guide to American Muscle Cars a Supercar Source Book 1960-2000"
I have his 4th Edition, it is pretty much the same info, adds a few cars, but it still omits a bunch of the notable '74 to '85 Pontiac milestones and definately has errors throughout. One notable one you mentioned was "Mechanically, the LG4 305-cid Chevy small block V-8 was rated at 165 hp, up 15 from the regular 305 in the Grand Prix."
Fact: All 1987 LG4 305ci: (VIN engine suffix "H"), 9.3:1, 165hp @ 4400, 245tq @ 2800, 4bbl E4ME Q-jet. The correct info is that hp was up 10-15hp in 1987 from the 1986 LG4 ratings, but actually there's ZERO differences in the engines. The only things that could account for that is use of the L69 exhaust system or a simple typo. An LG4 is an LG4 no matter what its in. These cars were somewhat hand-built on the line so its possible that certain "goodies" were added, but unlikely. Only the Monte SS got the L69 HO and was it rated at 180hp/190hp, (VIN engine suffix "G").
It is meant to be a Guide, as the foreword states, and is clearly not a "Red Book" for authentification and "Correct" info. No disrespect to him or you, but that guide covers over 300 cars that were made by every American manufacturer, built over a 40 year time-frame, and all "qualified" by the editor. Real verifications need to be made using PHS, a 2+2 Registry, all of the original Pontiac brochures, and any PMD Service/Dealer Bulletins.
I was heavily involved in ACES, American Chevelle Enthusiast Society in the early/mid 90's. There was a huge call for option verifications, paint/chalk markings, build sheets, etc for the '68-'72 Chevelle's, El Camino's, & Monte Carlo's to create the Chevelle Red Book. This was daunting because the internet was AOL in 3 colors and slow as hell, everything revolved around phone calls, fax, snail mail, and real photo's, so I am fully aware of what is involved in the research and info gathering. My point is that there just hasn't been a serious attempt to verify all of the 2+2 info yet. Does anyone even know their build time-frame & vin build sequence?
I have no problem with you questioning me, and personally deem it quite appropriate. The issue here is that until all of the things I stated above are actually done, refering to a Hemmings Muscle article and a Guide covering some 300 "Muscle Cars" as qualifiers of data will only cause future mayhem for restorers and the 2+2 history, more so now that Pontiac is dead. Again, these cars were rushed thru production for reasons stated above. I am willing to bet that there was a lot of things "overlooked" just to get them out the door. These cars, like the '81-'84 Recaro T/A's were pretty much forgotten until recently. Now they are being rediscovered and this is where owners such as yourself need to get together and start gathering correct info so these kinds of issues are resolved.
