85 T-Type engine swap

[81cutlass]

It was t-boned on the driver’s side A pillar and the frame is trashed. So the chip scene is dishonest and fraudulent? My thinking is that I can double my horsepower and drivability by doing a easy engine and transmission swap for under 1500 bucks that’s gotta be a win.

Before personal computers in order to do any ECM tuning you had to rely on a dude half way across the US to burn a chip for you.

Now that personal computers and software that allows you to do your own tuning is a thing (post 2005!) paying someone to burn a tune onto a chip for you is a scam.

The reason (IMO) so many turbo buicks blow headgaskets is that people crank the boost and timing up and when something minorly wrong happens, like an injector sticks, fuel pump pressure is low, or a 1000 other things instead of having your laptop next to you and allowing you to see what is going on and dialing the fuel and spark in for your combo, you rely on the 'chip' to know what is going on.

There are a ton of plug and play ECM options these days that allow you to scan, log, and edit the tune as it is happening instead of paying a guy a down payment to buy their chip and $100 every time to modify and guess what the car needs.

 

[Street Sweeper22]

Before personal computers in order to do any ECM tuning you had to rely on a dude half way across the US to burn a chip for you.

Now that personal computers and software that allows you to do your own tuning is a thing (post 2005!) paying someone to burn a tune onto a chip for you is a scam.

The reason (IMO) so many turbo buicks blow headgaskets is that people crank the boost and timing up and when something minorly wrong happens, like an injector sticks, fuel pump pressure is low, or a 1000 other things instead of having your laptop next to you and allowing you to see what is going on and dialing the fuel and spark in for your combo, you rely on the 'chip' to know what is going on.

There are a ton of plug and play ECM options these days that allow you to scan, log, and edit the tune as it is happening instead of paying a guy a down payment to buy their chip and $100 every time to modify and guess what the car needs.

These plug and play options that you speak of, which ones would you use for a novice that really isn’t going to throw a ton of performance parts at it. I’m just thinking better injectors and turbo. Not necessarily bigger just better because I’m sure technology of these parts have come a long way. Maybe down the road an inter cooler.

 

[Street Sweeper22]

Before personal computers in order to do any ECM tuning you had to rely on a dude half way across the US to burn a chip for you.

Now that personal computers and software that allows you to do your own tuning is a thing (post 2005!) paying someone to burn a tune onto a chip for you is a scam.

The reason (IMO) so many turbo buicks blow headgaskets is that people crank the boost and timing up and when something minorly wrong happens, like an injector sticks, fuel pump pressure is low, or a 1000 other things instead of having your laptop next to you and allowing you to see what is going on and dialing the fuel and spark in for your combo, you rely on the 'chip' to know what is going on.

There are a ton of plug and play ECM options these days that allow you to scan, log, and edit the tune as it is happening instead of paying a guy a down payment to buy their chip and $100 every time to modify and guess what the car needs.

Don’t leave me hanging on this. I really want to learn this stuff because I can’t afford to pay someone to do it. Your help is greatly appreciated

 

[81cutlass]

These plug and play options that you speak of, which ones would you use for a novice that really isn’t going to throw a ton of performance parts at it. I’m just thinking better injectors and turbo. Not necessarily bigger just better because I’m sure technology of these parts have come a long way. Maybe down the road an inter cooler.

Dynamic EFI sells a chip that converts the stock ecm to tunable

Ms3 does too

Buick Grand National 1984-1987 MS3Pro PNP ECU

Buick Grand National PNP ECU Fits 1984-1987 Buick Regal / 3.8 Turbo V6, including Grand National, T-Type, and GNXP Pro.

www.diyautotune.com

 

[ck80]

These plug and play options that you speak of, which ones would you use for a novice that really isn’t going to throw a ton of performance parts at it. I’m just thinking better injectors and turbo. Not necessarily bigger just better because I’m sure technology of these parts have come a long way. Maybe down the road an inter cooler.

Turbo size is limited compared to the 86/87 due to position behind the engine instead of in front. After a point you need to have a custom turbo build with the housing machined out and a larger impeller installed rather than just a whole new unit.

Intercooler for hot air cars are basically not a thing anymore. Decades ago they made kits that cost quite a bit more than upgrading the 86/7 cars because of complexity, and not a ton were made/sold. Now aways they're rather pricey, but you could piece something together depending on your welding skills or budget to pay well for someone to make one.

Upgrading injectors, depending on size, you're also doing work to your fuel pump, regulator, and cutting and threading an adjustable wastegate.

Also of note, aftermarket 84/5 downpipe upgrades are also an issue due to lack of support.

In short, most of the upgrades you read about for turbobuicks are much more expensive and harder to source for a hot-air than a factory ic car - and this includes maf translators and tuning support. A hot air car these days is almost a get a factory service manual and keep it stock, or, make it into an 86/7 top end to tap into the additional support situation.

 

[Street Sweeper22]

Dynamic EFI sells a chip that converts the stock ecm to tunable

Ms3 does too

Buick Grand National 1984-1987 MS3Pro PNP ECU

Buick Grand National PNP ECU Fits 1984-1987 Buick Regal / 3.8 Turbo V6, including Grand National, T-Type, and GNXP Pro.

www.diyautotune.com

Thank you

 

[Street Sweeper22]

Turbo size is limited compared to the 86/87 due to position behind the engine instead of in front. After a point you need to have a custom turbo build with the housing machined out and a larger impeller installed rather than just a whole new unit.

Intercooler for hot air cars are basically not a thing anymore. Decades ago they made kits that cost quite a bit more than upgrading the 86/7 cars because of complexity, and not a ton were made/sold. Now aways they're rather pricey, but you could piece something together depending on your welding skills or budget to pay well for someone to make one.

Upgrading injectors, depending on size, you're also doing work to your fuel pump, regulator, and cutting and threading an adjustable wastegate.

Also of note, aftermarket 84/5 downpipe upgrades are also an issue due to lack of support.

In short, most of the upgrades you read about for turbobuicks are much more expensive and harder to source for a hot-air than a factory ic car - and this includes maf translators and tuning support. A hot air car these days is almost a get a factory service manual and keep it stock, or, make it into an 86/7 top end to tap into the additional support situation.

I put a first gen cummins in a 84 ram charger. I made the mistake assuming that this swap would be similar. That was before I got hurt and it was a lot easier to find parts for a Cummins that’s run with one wire. I’m not totally incompetent as a mechanic. I did everything myself including boxing the frame, welding in a new transmission cross member, paint and body. I get your point though. The aftermarket support for a hot air turbo is doo do. I pretty much would keep it stock. When I say better injectors and turbo. I just mean newer and better performing.

 

[87National]

I put a first gen cummins in a 84 ram charger. I made the mistake assuming that this swap would be similar. That was before I got hurt and it was a lot easier to find parts for a Cummins that’s run with one wire. I’m not totally incompetent as a mechanic. I did everything myself including boxing the frame, welding in a new transmission cross member, paint and body. I get your point though. The aftermarket support for a hot air turbo is doo do. I pretty much would keep it stock. When I say better injectors and turbo. I just mean newer and better performing.

Not to discourage you ....... but this would be a non-stop headache (even if you keep it stock)...... when you have electronic related issues (and you will), your only technical support will be a couple of guys on the turbobuick hot air section of the forum.

I went down the same road early on with my 87 GN (issues with ign module, MAF, cam sensor)..... 84-85 HA cars would have been 10x worse in terms of technical support and parts availability.

Bottom line is....it's just not worth it for a setup that will run, at best, 15 sec flat in the 1/4 mile.

 

[ck80]

Not to discourage you ....... but this would be a non-stop headache (even if you keep it stock)...... when you have electronic related issues (and you will), your only technical support will be a couple of guys on the turbobuick hot air section of the forum.

I went down the same road early on with my 87 GN (issues with ign module, MAF, cam sensor)..... 84-85 HA cars would have been 10x worse in terms of technical support and parts availability.

Bottom line is....it's just not worth it for a setup that will run, at best, 15 sec flat in the 1/4 mile.

I don't know, it's sometimes nice just to be different.

If he got the factory shop manual and made a stock swap, and didn't try tuning and altering anything with the chip, then he may be in good shape. Just running a scan tool (any scan master support for a hotair?) To see what the engine was doing is different than trying to make a newer aftermarket management system work with the car... now THAT would be a headache without support from guys doing it.

 

[87National]

I don't know, it's sometimes nice just to be different.

If he got the factory shop manual and made a stock swap, and didn't try tuning and altering anything with the chip, then he may be in good shape. Just running a scan tool (any scan master support for a hotair?) To see what the engine was doing is different than trying to make a newer aftermarket management system work with the car... now THAT would be a headache without support from guys doing it.

I'm all for being different (pretty much all of my automotive endeavors can be described as "different"). But here we are talking about a car that hasn't moved in 20 years.....it's not going to fire and run well at the first turn of the key. There are just a couple of guys on the HA Turbobuick forum with the knowledge to help him trouble shoot any issues.....and those guys will even recommend an 86-87 setup to newbies.