BUILD THREAD 86 GP 2+2~Blown 6.0

oldsmobile joe

Royal Smart Person
Nov 12, 2015
2,067
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mpls
I recall the 2GR swap being popular, but that was a 3.5L. I'm guessing that's a something GR? With the blower that car must get right along.
toyota 3.0l v6 is a 1mz, 3.3l v6 are 3mz. i don't know enough about the super charger option, other than is was a dealer installed option. this is the only one i've seen,

a former co-worker built a 3.5 2gr v6 with 5spd into his mr2. sorry no pics. rumor has it he is now shoehorning a 4.0l 1uz into his 75 celica. very talented man;
 

Supercharged111

Comic Book Super Hero
Oct 25, 2019
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Colorado Springs, CO
toyota 3.0l v6 is a 1mz, 3.3l v6 are 3mz. i don't know enough about the super charger option, other than is was a dealer installed option. this is the only one i've seen,

a former co-worker built a 3.5 2gr v6 with 5spd into his mr2. sorry no pics. rumor has it he is now shoehorning a 4.0l 1uz into his 75 celica. very talented man;

OK IIRC the MZ engines are an older generation? I remember that the shift linkage goes through the front of the trans on an MR2 and the back on a fwd application. He must have a steady drill hand among some other trickery.
 

81cutlass

Comic Book Super Hero
Feb 16, 2009
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the blue mr2 in the first pic, iirc, has a 3.0l v6 mated to a 5 spd manual, the kicker is it has the toyota factory supercharger on it also. should be a fun ride.

Yeah I chatted with him for a while, it was pretty cool and well done.

If I remember right the 5 speed bolted right to the K member in 2 of the 3 mounts and he added a 3rd.

Has some odd dealer available blower and was a cool car.
 

81cutlass

Comic Book Super Hero
Feb 16, 2009
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I assume the Hurst/Olds designer got assigned to the 2+2 program and told to make it look unique or something.

It looks like a 'it's ok if you copy my homework, just change it a little so it looks like you didn't directly copy it'.
1626648956664.png


I also processed the autocross runs. I got faster every run. I'd love to run another 4 passes and see what I learn.
 
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64nailhead

Goat Herder
Dec 1, 2014
5,703
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Upstate NY
Blower.....hmmm......instant boost.


That drives very well. Excellent!!!!!
 
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Supercharged111

Comic Book Super Hero
Oct 25, 2019
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Yeah I chatted with him for a while, it was pretty cool and well done.

If I remember right the 5 speed bolted right to the K member in 2 of the 3 mounts and he added a 3rd.

Has some odd dealer available blower and was a cool car.

All TRD blowers are dealer available blowers. They install it and you keep your warranty.
 

81cutlass

Comic Book Super Hero
Feb 16, 2009
4,649
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Western MN
So I have been looking at timing with the help of our friend from Alberta :)

Comparing some timing tables of LSA combos to mine.


This one is Happel's G with the LSA 4.8 on flex. Basically 13.5-17 degrees between 2500 and 6500 at 1-psi ramping up as the RPM ramps up.
1626789746740.png



Here is my 'gas' table, basically 6 degrees at 2500 up to 11 degrees at 6500.
Vs. the stock 'gas' LSA table, 20-22 degrees between the range I am running
1626789513225.png


And looking at the low octane LSA table it's in the 4-11 degree range.
1626790474873.png



So I think what I (may) have done is copy the low octane table in to both low and high octane tables to keep it safe on gas. Which is fine because I don't care about power when I am running 87 when I am cruising 200 miles to see family/friends, but I think it's hurting me when I flip to E.


I add a 'flat' 2 degrees of timing from ethanol. I assume there is a blend internal so E0 is gas table, and E100 is this table, so if I am at E50/60 it's 1 degree add. This is what I saw one of Happels tune do so I thought that would be a good idea.
1626790765253.png


And this is what the stock flex adder is doing from the 02 tahoe tune. This is fine because it's adding 5-8 degrees of timing with E50 in the range I am concerned.
1626790846292.png



So what I think I did (which is wrong) is:
1. Made my high and low octane tables the same (low octane) to be 'safe' on 87 octane when I am cruising (this is fine IF I add enough timing with flex)
2. Made my flex adder table very conservative (which is fine, IF I make both my low and high octane tables more aggressive)

What I essentially did is made my low and high octane gas timing tables conservative AND made my flex adder table conservative. If I made my gas timing table aggressive and flex adder conservative, or gas timing conservative and flex adder aggressive I'd be fine, but I did both conservative and it's really bogging the engine down low.

I think the path forward is replace my existing low and high octane tables with a low octane LSA table and plug in the stock flex adder table from the flex Tahoe tune. That way am safe and low spark on low octane 87 gas, but that I actually add enough timing when I splash in some E85. I also need to get my knock sensors working. They are hooked up but I turned them off because there was exhaust to frame rattling issues years ago and I have since solved that.


In other news:

Boy I am dangerous now!

I posted it in the welding tips thread but I hunted down a 20 year old Miller TIG off FB a week ago for a decent price and Dad picked it up. We are going to 'co' own it since neither of us have a ton to weld but we both have enough that it's worth owning one. I need to stock up on consumables and buy an argon tank (I am just borrowing a friends to test this out).

The foot pedal and torch should also swap into Dad's Maxtron 450 big arse industrial (90 amp input) welder because they are both late 90 early 00's miller welders, so we can just swap the torch and foot pedal and he can do DC tig.

I have a few small tig projects to clean some things up under hood. It's an old transformer machine so it's a bit heavy BUT not as big as the refrigerator sized 70's/80's style. BUT it does AC and can be loaded in the back of a vehicle to transport. It's for sure a hobby focused machine with a pretty low duty cycle, scratch start DC and high freq AC but it will be a great tool to add to the fleet.
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motorheadmike

Geezer
Nov 18, 2009
8,976
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Saskatchewan, Truckistan
Yeah, your timing is on the path to recovery now. The theory sounds good. You will probably be very surprised the difference in responsiveness once you get double the timing in there on good(er) fuel.

That said, I am surprised you don't run base 93 octane though, it's usually only a few cents more per gallon down there, up here its getting close to 80 cents difference per. I would recommend the best base fuel you can sustain plus E85, as pump ethanol is blended with pretty sh*t gasoline. Better safety net, IMO.

Enjoy the TIG - looking forward to seeing how you leverage it's versatility.
 
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Northernregal

Sloppy McRodbender
Oct 24, 2017
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Red Deer, Northern Montana territory
That Econotig is a great machine, I actually started on one of those I found for a smoking deal years ago. Believe it or not it will do a vast majority of the car related tig you will need, and have the dead nuts reliability of a transformer machine. Great investment.

Excited to see what those changes do for power, I was kinda surprised that you didnt just plug in the LSA table to all the boring parts of the tune anyway. :ROFLMAO:
 
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81cutlass

Comic Book Super Hero
Feb 16, 2009
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Yeah, your timing is on the path to recovery now. The theory sounds good. You will probably be very surprised the difference in responsiveness once you get double the timing in there on good(er) fuel.

That said, I am surprised you don't run base 93 octane though, it's usually only a few cents more per gallon down there, up here its getting close to 80 cents difference per. I would recommend the best base fuel you can sustain plus E85, as pump ethanol is blended with pretty sh*t gasoline. Better safety net, IMO.

Enjoy the TIG - looking forward to seeing how you leverage it's versatility.

The reason I ran my base on 87 is more good fuel availability when I lived in a town with 3500 people growing up and moderately good fuel was 60 miles away. I got into the mindset when I ran my firebird between home, to the farm and to college and 87/89 is everywhere but 91 was the best I can get and availability was spotty. (I was only aware of 1 93 pump in about a 100 mile radius). 91 non E was really only stocked in most pumps for snowmobiles and boats and it's about 80 cents more expensive per gallon. I'd say E15, E30 or E85 blender pumps are about as common as pumps with 91 in rural MN, ND or IA.

There is local pumps with 91 now that I live in a more metro setting (still not sure about 93) so it's probably not a terrible idea to just make the switch. Breaking old habits is hard especially when they have worked well (haven't ever put a rod out the block).

That Econotig is a great machine, I actually started on one of those I found for a smoking deal years ago. Believe it or not it will do a vast majority of the car related tig you will need, and have the dead nuts reliability of a transformer machine. Great investment.

Excited to see what those changes do for power, I was kinda surprised that you didnt just plug in the LSA table to all the boring parts of the tune anyway. :ROFLMAO:

Yeah I am pretty happy with it. Dad and I have been split on whether to get a new inverter China machine (eastwood, AHP ect) or a lightly used inverter US made machine (Diversion/Tig200 lincoln) because we had the requirement that it has to be transportable. Syncrowave's were in the budget but are definitely a landmark.

This is a great middle ground. Not 100% full featured and lighter duty cycle for sure, but like you say it should be reliable and do most of the light stuff Dad and I need.


Yeah I should just put on my big boy pants and load the LSA table :)
 
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