BUILD THREAD 86 GP 2+2~Blown 6.0

Supercharged111

Comic Book Super Hero
Oct 25, 2019
4,907
7,669
113
Colorado Springs, CO
The EBC yellow stuff are impressive. Ask Jim. You just won't get more than 15-20k miles out of them.

My friend ran the Yellow stuff in his NA Lancer. They were 100% for a full 20 minute session, but that car couldn't heat brakes like my Camaro. The Raybestos are also good from ambient.
 
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81cutlass

Comic Book Super Hero
Feb 16, 2009
4,639
13,542
113
Western MN
A pair of airbags is only $100, and you could put them on a dump valve to get crazy. Or, leave them individual for preload capabilities. Or, science it out to an onboard compressor with individual controls.....

And they could be activated by say, I don't know, maybe the clutch switch... 😉

Haha, sorry just kidding! Looking good and I'm curious to see how much the shocks help your wheel hop issue.

Honestly I forgot airbags were an option. It's not a bad idea.

Hush on the clutch switch project, I'm working on it :p
And yeah I am interested in the results on the shocks also.

I was just speaking to the local guy that recommended them. They are absolutely stupid - it takes less than a 1/2 second hard on the pedal for them to heat up and once they are hot it's ike a magnet is puling you backwards. And this is with a stock rotor. I can only imagine how they would stop with a C5/C6 rotor.

If I'm hard on the brakes and keep heat in them, then it's really nuts. FWIW, if the rotors last 5000 miles then I'll be happy. I have determined they are like stock brakes on the line lock after doing a burnout, but I bought them to stop my hemorrhoid building moments at the big end of the track. I haven't pushed them to 140 yet, but I have been over 125 ad stood on them - again, they have an absolutely silly amount of stopping power.
I'll take a look at those yellow EBC pads. Honestly my 125mph trap speeds and the 4th gen brakes I have are decent but i'm open to improvements.
 
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fleming442

Captain Tenneal
Dec 26, 2013
13,046
24,214
113
I mentioned the airbags because I just did the same thing in the 67. The new springs were too low to load the trunk up for the track, so I got a tank and bags, then plumbed the valves individually for a preload option. I yank the Schrader valves when I get to the track, then reinstall them and air the bags back up to head home.
 
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81cutlass

Comic Book Super Hero
Feb 16, 2009
4,639
13,542
113
Western MN
Ever start the day intending to look at your suspension travel and end up notching the frame?

The car seemed like it was bottoming out too easy. I pulled the springs and jacked the rear to full bump stop and it stopped much short. Calipers were hitting the frame. I had like an inch and a half of travel.

I have blazer disks but they are a little different from the normal swap. I have 4wd mounting brackets flipped side to side since 4wd puts them in the front of the rear and 2wd puts them in the back. They are a little higher than 2wd since the castings aren't perfectly mirror between 2wd and 4wd but are really close. Not sure if my frame is slightly wider, the rear is slightly narrower than everyone else or what, because the calipers firmly hit the frame and nobody I have ever seen mentioned it in all my years. I dont see how 2wd brackets would clear either.

So out came the grinder and welder.
IMG_20210507_192654.jpg

IMG_20210507_210657.jpg

IMG_20210507_212124.jpg

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And then I looked at my spring seat adjustors to crank the rear up a little until my new springs arrive, but they were bent so I built a new set. I had used a stack of shim washers when I first put it together and they were just too thin so I found some plate in my materials cabinet, chucked it in my lathe and did some spinny stuff.

IMG_20210507_201006.jpg

IMG_20210507_201605.jpg

I just welded a nut on that new HD washer and tossed it in.

I also cut my pinion snubber down an inch because that was like an inch long and was going to hit before the axle bumps.

Probably should have just did a full frame notch and I'll be mad at myself when I do one that I cut this little pie out but for now I'm fine with it.
 
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motorheadmike

Geezer
Nov 18, 2009
8,976
27,522
113
Saskatchewan, Truckistan
Ever start the day intending to look at your suspension travel and end up notching the frame?

The car seemed like it was bottoming out too easy. I pulled the springs and jacked the rear to full bump stop and it stopped much short. Calipers were hitting the frame. I had like an inch and a half of travel.

I have blazer disks but they are a little different from the normal swap. I have 4wd mounting brackets flipped side to side since 4wd puts them in the front of the rear and 2wd puts them in the back. They are a little higher than 2wd since the castings aren't perfectly mirror between 2wd and 4wd but are really close. Not sure if my frame is slightly wider, the rear is slightly narrower than everyone else or what, because the calipers firmly hit the frame and nobody I have ever seen mentioned it in all my years. I dont see how 2wd brackets would clear either.

So out came the grinder and welder.
View attachment 174983
View attachment 174984
View attachment 174985
View attachment 174986

And then I looked at my spring seat adjustors to crank the rear up a little until my new springs arrive, but they were bent so I built a new set. I had used a stack of shim washers when I first put it together and they were just too thin so I found some plate in my materials cabinet, chucked it in my lathe and did some spinny stuff.

View attachment 174987
View attachment 174988
I just welded a nut on that new HD washer and tossed it in.

I also cut my pinion snubber down an inch because that was like an inch long and was going to hit before the axle bumps.

Probably should have just did a full frame notch and I'll be mad at myself when I do one that I cut this little pie out but for now I'm fine with it.

Good thing you painted the piece you welded in... wouldn't want it to rust. :p

And yes, you should have just done a proper notch with radiused corners.

Strange that the calipers hit... unless that isn't a stock 10 bolt. My Buick didn't have the problem with LS1 discs.

EDIT: in retrospect I clocked the calipers in my Buick to avoid the problem, IIRC.
 
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81cutlass

Comic Book Super Hero
Feb 16, 2009
4,639
13,542
113
Western MN
Good thing you painted the piece you welded in... wouldn't want it to rust. :p

And yes, you should have just done a proper notch with radiused corners.

Strange that the calipers hit... unless that isn't a stock 10 bolt. My Buick didn't have the problem with LS1 discs.

EDIT: in retrospect I clocked the calipers in my Buick to avoid the problem, IIRC.

Well of course, gotta make sure the frame looks as good as the rest of the car lol!

The rear is my goofy 8.5 zr2 rear with 7.5 tubes sleeved in so everything is wrong while being stock geometry lol.

I'm sure I'll regret not full notching it when I try to tuck my 10" wheels in and I'll curse myself, but until then I'm ok with my decision.

Was it more than the fins hitting? Cuz I definitely would have gone after them first if nothing else to minimize the notch requirement.

I looked and it was more than just the fin. It got deep into where the hose attaches along with the mounting bolts too. Trust me I tried to find a lazier solution at first.


Oh and results? It's good! The ride is greatly improved and it stopped bottoming out. Took a spin down to get some Cutlass parts and went to cruise night and the ride is pretty darn good! With the bump stop situation on the rear and full travel allowed and the foam bump stops on the front it makes for a comfortable but confidence inspiring result. I think I'm going to copy this almost everything in this setup on my Cutlass when I get to the turbo Buick swap this winter.
 
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81cutlass

Comic Book Super Hero
Feb 16, 2009
4,639
13,542
113
Western MN
Not this carp again.

The fact my fuel pressure sensor wasn't reading below 62 psi was troubling. Was my fuel pressure regulator not working? Was the return line restricted? Was the calibration on the sensor bad or was it the sensor itself? The sensor works fine from 62 psi and up but not below. I want to have my instrumentation working before I go to the track.

I cobbled some fittings together and put my mechanical fuel pressure gauge in the feed line. Yep, 62 psi. Pulled a light vac on the regulator, yep, pressure went down. Put a light amount of pressure on the regulator, yep, pressure goes up. Something is wrong with the sensor. Plug 500 PSI lowdoller sensor destined for the clutch line in fuel pressure port. Still stuck at ~350 psi with new calibration. Hmm. Check voltage output on hptuners and it never goes below 2.92v.

Check 5V and ground to the sensor, yep. Remove feed wire from sensor to PCM and check voltage, sensor works. Something in the PCM.

I WAS using the fuel level sensor input for the pressure sensors. I assumed it was a 0-5V input based on the voltage range that GM listed on the fuel level sensors (1-2.5V for a tahoe). I think it's actually a 5 v output with current limited supply and the change in resistance in the fuel level sensor changes the voltage out and that's what it reports to the dash. I was trying to input voltage into a supply. Driving the wrong way down a one way.

My rough assumption is the internal resistance of the lowdoller sensor somehow is equal to whatever ohm rating corresponds to 2.92 volts of supply from the PCM. I just got lucky that it was roughly in the range of operation. Once the sensor went over 62 psi it started outputting more than 2.92V and it no longer became a sink and a instead a supply so thats why HPtuners made sense above 62 but not below. It took my electrical engineering buddy to work through it with me and grasp the idea.

I hooked the fuel pressure signal to the fuel tank pressure 0-5v input and it works. I just gotta clean the wiring up and its good. I have to find one more 5v open input for the clutch. Probably the AC pressure switch, red #14.

#stockPCMlifebro

1620703825882.png
 
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motorheadmike

Geezer
Nov 18, 2009
8,976
27,522
113
Saskatchewan, Truckistan
Not this carp again.

The fact my fuel pressure sensor wasn't reading below 62 psi was troubling. Was my fuel pressure regulator not working? Was the return line restricted? Was the calibration on the sensor bad or was it the sensor itself? The sensor works fine from 62 psi and up but not below. I want to have my instrumentation working before I go to the track.

I cobbled some fittings together and put my mechanical fuel pressure gauge in the feed line. Yep, 62 psi. Pulled a light vac on the regulator, yep, pressure went down. Put a light amount of pressure on the regulator, yep, pressure goes up. Something is wrong with the sensor. Plug 500 PSI lowdoller sensor destined for the clutch line in fuel pressure port. Still stuck at ~350 psi with new calibration. Hmm. Check voltage output on hptuners and it never goes below 2.92v.

Check 5V and ground to the sensor, yep. Remove feed wire from sensor to PCM and check voltage, sensor works. Something in the PCM.

I WAS using the fuel level sensor input for the pressure sensors. I assumed it was a 0-5V input based on the voltage range that GM listed on the fuel level sensors (1-2.5V for a tahoe). I think it's actually a 5 v output with current limited supply and the change in resistance in the fuel level sensor changes the voltage out and that's what it reports to the dash. I was trying to input voltage into a supply. Driving the wrong way down a one way.

My rough assumption is the internal resistance of the lowdoller sensor somehow is equal to whatever ohm rating corresponds to 2.92 volts of supply from the PCM. I just got lucky that it was roughly in the range of operation. Once the sensor went over 62 psi it started outputting more than 2.92V and it no longer became a sink and a instead a supply so thats why HPtuners made sense above 62 but not below. It took my electrical engineering buddy to work through it with me and grasp the idea.

I hooked the fuel pressure signal to the fuel tank pressure 0-5v input and it works. I just gotta clean the wiring up and its good. I have to find one more 5v open input for the clutch. Probably the AC pressure switch, red #14.

#stockPCMlifebro

View attachment 175162

Just get a voltage regulator that drops 12v to 5 v and use a relay to a busbar and have all the key-on 5v feeds you could ever want. I did that with switched 12v in the TBSS, and Monte and wagon.

FWIW, this is why I buy more expensive transducers that can take much larger voltages and regulate themselves down to a 5v output.
 
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64nailhead

Goat Herder
Dec 1, 2014
5,659
1
12,059
113
Upstate NY
Just get a voltage regulator that drops 12v to 5 v and use a relay to a busbar and have all the key-on 5v feeds you could ever want. I did that with switched 12v in the TBSS, and Monte and wagon.

FWIW, this is why I buy more expensive transducers that can take much larger voltages and regulate themselves down to a 5v output.
I was thinking the same until I re-read his post. Is he having issues with finding an input that reads .5-4.5v on the ECM?

I'm learning more about HP Tuners and stock ECM's following along here than I ever have :0
 
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