Aftermarket Rear Frame Rails

[kustomkyle]

I was searching around for someone who makes caps to repair rear frame rails when I found someone in Canada who actually sells whole rails with body mounting pieces. They don't seem too expensive either considering the fact of what they are.

I contacted the seller and he replied back twice immediately with answers and several installation pictures on a few different cars. He said they are 29 3/8" long, and overlap on top and on the bottom. The sides have a channel that is inserted into the original frame to make it stronger and so that the sides can be welded flush.

I work in a bodyshop and the system seems reputable. We actually end up sectioning frame rails all the time on newer cars with thinner metal. There are several rules of what is right and what is not, but basically, I-CAR states that as long as there is a sleeve inside the sectioned area and the repair doesn't extend into the kickup area, the repair is acceptable. The biggest challenge is getting a quality weld. Full frames rarely get replaced anymore, I've only seen it done once on a Ford Sport-Trac, and it was surprising the insurance company paid for all the labor that went into that.

So anyway, has anyone done this? I originally stumbled across this on someones Car Domain page of a modified Monte Carlo SS, and then later found a website where somebody with a Grand Prix did it. Both were in Canada where rust seems to be very bad much like the northern rustbelt of the U.S. for G-body frames. The rear part of the frames on these cars are not very well made, at least on the cars I've inspected. The thin gauge metal coupled with incomplete welds and large holes from the factory don't stand a chance with moist soils and especially road salts. If anything, if done right, I personally think this would be stronger than what was there from the factory, but I'm not real familiar with sectioning full framed cars yet. I'll include the link below.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/conradlozier/

 

[85_SS]

The one site you saw may have been mine - Conrad installed a set on my car a few years back and I would highly recommend his product. Here's the pics of him completing the install:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/291978/7

 

[kustomkyle]

Yeah, you are right. The I just noticed your signature picture was the same car. Very nice car. The Pontiac T/A style shaker scoop and white paint makes it look like Jim Wanger's "Ponte Carlo", except you don't have the padded landau roof and monster Pontiac engine.

How well are they holding up? I've done structural work on thin gauge uni-body cars but I'm scared about cutting and welding frames like these. I'd have to have a professional fabricator do the work, but I can only imagine how expesive that is. My car won't have an engine like yours, it's a stock 307 car with a 200-4R and 7.5 rear axle.

 

[85_SS]

Thanks for the kind words

They have held up great, and I can't see there being any issues with the repair to be honest - if you didn't know any better, you'd never be able to tell they've been replaced once everything was undercoated. This area of the frame basically only supports the trunk area of the body. I didn't want to bring the job to anyone but Conrad, as he has installed 100's of these in the past, but if you are far away you don't have much choice.

I put some pipe plugs up in the body mount holes to prevent this from ever re-occuring, though the car rarely even sees rain now so it's not much of an issue. It's hard to believe how bad the original rails were as the car hadn't seen a winter for about 12 years before that.

 

[kustomkyle]

After I checked out a U.S. company in PA that sold generic frame rails (intended more for racing modification applications), I decided to order a kit from Conrad.

I guess all I'll have to do now is find someone around here to cut the old ones out and splice in the new stuff.

From all the pictures of the installations, it appears the gas tank definitely has to come out (I should probably replace that too). Looks like the bumper has to come off as well. I wonder if anything else has to be removed or needs to be braced during the repair process?

 

[Uncletruck]

Yes, the bumper has to come off as it is bolted to the rear sections of the rails. That used to be the big problem here in the northeastern USA- the frame rails would rot so bad that the bumpers would fall right off the cars I saw one G body station wagon where the rear section of the car actually started folding down in back from the frame being rotted. Body shops around me in NY and PA used to address these all the time with various types of repairs, most won't even know what you are talking about today.

-UT-

 

[kustomkyle]

Yeah, I used to live in Western PA. My parents had a 1983 Monte Carlo when I was little, and the frame rails on it were as bad if not worse than how mine are now (that car wasn't even 10 years old yet). I don't remember the body having any rust though. My Regal was originally from Williamsport, PA, which I wouldn't think would be as bad since it is a little more Eastward, but I guess not. The cars here in Delaware aren't anywhere near as bad even though it is only one state below PA and by the ocean.

 

[85_SS]

Conrad didn't remove the bumper on mine - he says he prefers to leave it in place to keep things aligned better. He did one side at a time, and it must just be the bolts that hold the bumper cover on that held everything up in place. I can't recall to be honest, but I know he didn't remove the bumper. On older models with chrome bumpers, you wouldn't have a choice I wouldn't think.

 

[mwynette]

It is better to leave g-bodies with urethane rear bumpers on when changing the rails. I have repaired dozens of these cars and maybe a half dozen of Conrad's kits. They have excellent fit and are actually an improved design for rust resistance over the OEM ones. The one thing I thought about is a rear collision and the rails making the rear body too strong. After seeing them, I don't think this is would be the case. They are better than having rotted ones. I just talked to Conrad and he said he would refer people to me for installations. I am a licensed autobody technician with extensive rust repair experience living here in Cambridge, Ontario. I have a small shop in my garage where I can perform the installation of his kits.

 

[n8dogg]

you might even get off lucky and the body mount bolts will come out! I finished my set of conrads rails a week ago. The fit is good but the body mounts are hocket pucks. Find oem ones if you can. I didn't have to bacause the mounts were still ok. The fit was pretty good but not perfect, I'd say 90%. The guy at my shop who did them did it in 4 hours because of not having to change the body mounts. He used to have a shop deticated to fixing g-bodys, so I guess I go lucky! He did a great job!

We were both impressed with the rails but like I said, better mounts would be best. I've had hockey pucks crack in half that were used for the same thing in the past so I refuse to use them now.