Anbody have any links to gbodys with the 500 engine? I've been doing some research on these motors and they are a real sleeper engine.
Cadillac 500 Engine
- Thread starter kingcolbert83
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No cardomain or anything but you might check out my photo album. What is your goals and intended use of the car? ET, pump gas, etc? Do you want to be able to drive it on a powertour or just terrorize locals and hit in town car shows? Budget, although it can be done in steps over time as you can afford it you know their is billet parts or a stronger than you need it bottom end and their is re ring it I want to drive it in two weeks. I can give you some pros & cons to just about any parts for this motor and or the car itself as I have been through it with both twice and have messed with em for years.
I even have some parts that I have not listed but that you may be interested in; an extra complete Caddy 500, 8.5 gbody rear, F-41 sway bars etc. This is a REALLY fun reliable useable & affordable power to cost car to build. IMO its also so much cooler and unique than another sbc "because their cheap & common" conversion. No disrespect to those who have and or put lots of cash in a high end purdy & fast sbc gbody. Per your PM I will give you some need to knows / good to knows about putting the big Cad in your gbody in another post.
I even have some parts that I have not listed but that you may be interested in; an extra complete Caddy 500, 8.5 gbody rear, F-41 sway bars etc. This is a REALLY fun reliable useable & affordable power to cost car to build. IMO its also so much cooler and unique than another sbc "because their cheap & common" conversion. No disrespect to those who have and or put lots of cash in a high end purdy & fast sbc gbody. Per your PM I will give you some need to knows / good to knows about putting the big Cad in your gbody in another post.
Big Cad into 78 thru 88 Gbody Cutlass, Regal, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Malibu, Le Mans, & El Camino
For motor mounts two L shaped brackets one side of L drilled for Cad motor mounts the other drilled or torched for your existing frame holes. You can make these out of 4 pieces flat stock or buy them from a vendor. I bought mine to save time and head scratching. Use thick stock she bent my first set. (Torque & traction will find the weakest link) I believe either Eldo or rear wheel drive mounts will work one may be a little lower or drill new holes in the side of the mounts to keep the motor even lower. Keeping the motor low is a benefit as it provides more hood clearance at air breather with aftermarket intakes and for the AC compressor if you decide to keep your Gbody AC, also optimum drive shaft angle, room at the AC box & center of gravity. Both of mine sat low square and back close to the firewall both just mounted to the factory 200-4R with no adjustments to the transmission mounting or driveshaft. If you use a th400 as most do you may have to cut your drive shaft depending on short or long tail and on what rear you choose i.e. factory 7.5, 8.5, a 12 bolt or ford 9. You will probably have to modify or buy an aftermarket cross member. I just heated and shaped mine for dual exhaust but you can now buy them ready made for reasonable money.
Use the 68 thru 76 Eldo oil pan, pick up tube, dipstick tube & dipstick. If you break the dipstick tube you can make another out of a common stick of 3/8" break line and compressions fittings. You can also buy one like this from MTS or CPP. The vendors also have aftermarket pans. FYI their is two holes in the block for dip sticks to go into. One being occupied by the dip stick tube the other by a common ball bearing. If you start with a rwd motor and add a Eldo pan you have to swap the ball bearing & dip stick tube otherwise your Eldo dip stick may catch the crank and get mangled or worse.
My first car had weak stock springs but even with the motor sitting low probably a little lower than the factory 307 sat I never hit the pan even when I bottomed her out. BTW engine weight 599lbs less if memory serves me 22lbs with the Edelbrock intake. So even with the weaker of the factory springs it handled decent with just factory F41 sway bars, 15x7 wheels, & 235/60s.
For practical purposes all 68 thru 76 472/500 blocks are the same. Again for practical purposes there are only two factory 472/500 heads early 68 thru 73 which is best for performance and say a 10-1 compression build or 74 thru 76 open chamber heads for a 9-1 or less build. At the back of the passenger side head is a coolant passage that most will have a fitting on that is too long for our firewall. I wanted to keep the coolant flowing thru the back of the head for optimum cooling so I got a short 90 degree elbow that would screw into the back of the head and another that will screw into it to mount the hose to. These are available at any plumbing supply Lowes or Home Depot. She has been detonation free as noted on a teardown in a true measured calculated 10-1 motor that was sometimes run on 89 octane. The combustion chamber in these heads were ahead of their time as they have a great heart shaped chamber much like the new Chevy LS1 motors and even have the same fireing order as the new motors. That’s not to say there isn’t hugh improvements in the new aluminum heads. Note you can also drill the back of the driver’s side head and put one there even though Cadillac did not. There are pics on the Cadillac power forums albums and I believe also on a link from the CPP website.
If you want to keep the Gbody AC you can easily do it with two brackets from an 80/81 Cadillac 368 as they used the newer style “pancake” compressor that we have on the gbody. I modified the brackets a bit so the back of the support bracket would bolt to my Edelbrock intake. The passenger side valve cover should fit snug up against the AC hamster wheel box if the motor is centered. What I did to provide more room so that I can take off the valve cover without unbolting a motor mount and jacking up the engine was to cut out the side of the hamster wheel box and move the wall back in ½” then fiberglass it back up and shoot her with a lil black spray paint. It was cheap easy & common sense with a small fiberglass kit from the local auto parts store and I had never fiber glassed anything before. Keeping the AC is nice in the heat, gets you props at the shows, and will get you a bigger market better price if you sell the car. Its not a small block the few pounds & lil drag of the AC won't make the big Cad any difference, like a diesel truck pulling a lawn mower trailer. If you are not building a stripped out drag car it makes no sense to rip out the AC IMO. On the drivers side again with the motor centered the exhaust manifold or header will be very close to the steering shaft. Both of mine fit without adjustment but both were center console cars not column shift. I made headers from BBChevy gbody headers and a Cadillac flange that you can get at any vendor. Up front I used an oil pump from the 77 to 84 425/368 as it tucks up closer to the block and provided more room so that I could run the larger sway bars without washer between the sway bar and the frame. Instead of using stock or even the large factory F41 bar I am used a 36mm hollow bar from an early 90s WS6 Trans Am. Also I have read that the Sanderson CAD600 shorty/mid length headers fit with minor adjustments.
For motor mounts two L shaped brackets one side of L drilled for Cad motor mounts the other drilled or torched for your existing frame holes. You can make these out of 4 pieces flat stock or buy them from a vendor. I bought mine to save time and head scratching. Use thick stock she bent my first set. (Torque & traction will find the weakest link) I believe either Eldo or rear wheel drive mounts will work one may be a little lower or drill new holes in the side of the mounts to keep the motor even lower. Keeping the motor low is a benefit as it provides more hood clearance at air breather with aftermarket intakes and for the AC compressor if you decide to keep your Gbody AC, also optimum drive shaft angle, room at the AC box & center of gravity. Both of mine sat low square and back close to the firewall both just mounted to the factory 200-4R with no adjustments to the transmission mounting or driveshaft. If you use a th400 as most do you may have to cut your drive shaft depending on short or long tail and on what rear you choose i.e. factory 7.5, 8.5, a 12 bolt or ford 9. You will probably have to modify or buy an aftermarket cross member. I just heated and shaped mine for dual exhaust but you can now buy them ready made for reasonable money.
Use the 68 thru 76 Eldo oil pan, pick up tube, dipstick tube & dipstick. If you break the dipstick tube you can make another out of a common stick of 3/8" break line and compressions fittings. You can also buy one like this from MTS or CPP. The vendors also have aftermarket pans. FYI their is two holes in the block for dip sticks to go into. One being occupied by the dip stick tube the other by a common ball bearing. If you start with a rwd motor and add a Eldo pan you have to swap the ball bearing & dip stick tube otherwise your Eldo dip stick may catch the crank and get mangled or worse.
My first car had weak stock springs but even with the motor sitting low probably a little lower than the factory 307 sat I never hit the pan even when I bottomed her out. BTW engine weight 599lbs less if memory serves me 22lbs with the Edelbrock intake. So even with the weaker of the factory springs it handled decent with just factory F41 sway bars, 15x7 wheels, & 235/60s.
For practical purposes all 68 thru 76 472/500 blocks are the same. Again for practical purposes there are only two factory 472/500 heads early 68 thru 73 which is best for performance and say a 10-1 compression build or 74 thru 76 open chamber heads for a 9-1 or less build. At the back of the passenger side head is a coolant passage that most will have a fitting on that is too long for our firewall. I wanted to keep the coolant flowing thru the back of the head for optimum cooling so I got a short 90 degree elbow that would screw into the back of the head and another that will screw into it to mount the hose to. These are available at any plumbing supply Lowes or Home Depot. She has been detonation free as noted on a teardown in a true measured calculated 10-1 motor that was sometimes run on 89 octane. The combustion chamber in these heads were ahead of their time as they have a great heart shaped chamber much like the new Chevy LS1 motors and even have the same fireing order as the new motors. That’s not to say there isn’t hugh improvements in the new aluminum heads. Note you can also drill the back of the driver’s side head and put one there even though Cadillac did not. There are pics on the Cadillac power forums albums and I believe also on a link from the CPP website.
If you want to keep the Gbody AC you can easily do it with two brackets from an 80/81 Cadillac 368 as they used the newer style “pancake” compressor that we have on the gbody. I modified the brackets a bit so the back of the support bracket would bolt to my Edelbrock intake. The passenger side valve cover should fit snug up against the AC hamster wheel box if the motor is centered. What I did to provide more room so that I can take off the valve cover without unbolting a motor mount and jacking up the engine was to cut out the side of the hamster wheel box and move the wall back in ½” then fiberglass it back up and shoot her with a lil black spray paint. It was cheap easy & common sense with a small fiberglass kit from the local auto parts store and I had never fiber glassed anything before. Keeping the AC is nice in the heat, gets you props at the shows, and will get you a bigger market better price if you sell the car. Its not a small block the few pounds & lil drag of the AC won't make the big Cad any difference, like a diesel truck pulling a lawn mower trailer. If you are not building a stripped out drag car it makes no sense to rip out the AC IMO. On the drivers side again with the motor centered the exhaust manifold or header will be very close to the steering shaft. Both of mine fit without adjustment but both were center console cars not column shift. I made headers from BBChevy gbody headers and a Cadillac flange that you can get at any vendor. Up front I used an oil pump from the 77 to 84 425/368 as it tucks up closer to the block and provided more room so that I could run the larger sway bars without washer between the sway bar and the frame. Instead of using stock or even the large factory F41 bar I am used a 36mm hollow bar from an early 90s WS6 Trans Am. Also I have read that the Sanderson CAD600 shorty/mid length headers fit with minor adjustments.
Thanks for all the info. I found one at a junkyard I frequent. He wants 500 for the motor including everything. Still has the carb on it too. I suspect it will need to be rebuilt though. Missing alternator and distributor cap so most likely a new distributor is in order. Also needs a radiator. He swears the motor is in good condition and has no problems. Says he can pour gas down carb and it would crank up and run. No battery and other things missing though. I will probably go thru it and do a basic rebuild though. I dont plan on dropping it in anytime soon. Do you think this is a good deal? I would love to get it just so I know when the time comes I already have the motor.
Did the mounts from MTS sit the motor low or did you have to do some adjustments to get it to sit the way you wanted? O yea the car is a two door eldorado with ac. Should I run the eldo ac or a gbody one?
Is there an adapter that can adapt a caddy motor to a chevy trans. Since I'm probably redoing my trans next I would hate to go thru all the trouble of setting my driveline up for this motor and then happen to not be able to get it.
Did the mounts from MTS sit the motor low or did you have to do some adjustments to get it to sit the way you wanted? O yea the car is a two door eldorado with ac. Should I run the eldo ac or a gbody one?
Is there an adapter that can adapt a caddy motor to a chevy trans. Since I'm probably redoing my trans next I would hate to go thru all the trouble of setting my driveline up for this motor and then happen to not be able to get it.
Make him prove to you it will run. If it does you can make him an offer if it don't you can make him a lesser offer. I used the altenator off my gbody but had to cut off some of the Cadillac altenator bracket to make it fit. Either that or you would use an inexpensive aftermarket that is a dramatic improvement over the older weaker altenators of years gone by. Actually Cadillac had fuel injection back in 76 and had a cylinder shut off with the later version 368. I even read about a guy who made it work on his 500. I know Mopar just came out with that in this years Hemi on their new truck. Anyway Cadillac did have an 80 amp altenator for that modle but get a new one or use an existing one from your car. For the distributor you would get a new cap & rotor anyway. In my pics you can see the bright red universal MSD Cap with coil, rotor, & new red 8.5mm wires that I got on sale for $79.
Generally you use the mounts that come out of the car you get the motor from, but you can get Cadillac motor mounts at any autoparts store cheap. MTS would sell you the L shaped brackets that bolt to your frame and the mounts. If you want it a little lower to clear a stock hood and an aftermarket intake (rather than trim hood braceing) you can drill new holes just up from the one in the motor mounts. Capish? Eldo is good because it has the pan you need which used ones sell for $150! But what year because early gets you better heads but later gets you HEI and the desireable 800cfm electric choke Q-jet. Either way you can get the other parts from a junk motor to put the best of both together for cheap. I did this reused the stock rods from a 500 but bought new inexpensive 10-1 cast pistons and then had the rods stress relieved and the whole rotating assembly balanced. This was inexpensive and strong enough for the rpm & power that I was planning for. Today the vendors have on the shelf drop in ready long 7" forged rods with forged pistons for 10-1 & more and reasonably priced. Not that you need that for your goals but its nice to know its there.
You can run the big long heavy old Cadillac compressor if you stay with the stock manifold assuming it fits under the hood. I chose to hunt up an 80/81 368 for the brackets to run the Gbody AC. At any rate you can decide not to vent the gbody AC and set it where the plastic fuel tank vent box is (and relocate that if you want) in the front corner of the passenger side of the engine compartment. Simply run a shorter belt that will fit and run without the AC until you acquire the brackets and are ready to have your AC hooked up.
Its standard BOPC Buick Olds Pontiac Cadillac bellhousing that should fit your existing trans (200-4R? that would need beefed to handle the power) or any common bopc or universal bellhousing transmission. ie usually a th400 or th350. Why get a chevy specific bellhousing transmission? But to answer your question I believe I have seen chevy to BOPC adapters. These tire shredders are so much fun. I had a guy ask me once; can we do a power brake for the guys? Power brake!? We don't need no stinking brakes! Two fishtailing black streaks from a stop or from a roll no brakes required. 8)
www.cadillacpower.com/forum
www.caddy500.com
www.500cid.com
www.cadillacperformanceparts.com
www.cad500parts.com
www.northernautoparts.com
Generally you use the mounts that come out of the car you get the motor from, but you can get Cadillac motor mounts at any autoparts store cheap. MTS would sell you the L shaped brackets that bolt to your frame and the mounts. If you want it a little lower to clear a stock hood and an aftermarket intake (rather than trim hood braceing) you can drill new holes just up from the one in the motor mounts. Capish? Eldo is good because it has the pan you need which used ones sell for $150! But what year because early gets you better heads but later gets you HEI and the desireable 800cfm electric choke Q-jet. Either way you can get the other parts from a junk motor to put the best of both together for cheap. I did this reused the stock rods from a 500 but bought new inexpensive 10-1 cast pistons and then had the rods stress relieved and the whole rotating assembly balanced. This was inexpensive and strong enough for the rpm & power that I was planning for. Today the vendors have on the shelf drop in ready long 7" forged rods with forged pistons for 10-1 & more and reasonably priced. Not that you need that for your goals but its nice to know its there.
You can run the big long heavy old Cadillac compressor if you stay with the stock manifold assuming it fits under the hood. I chose to hunt up an 80/81 368 for the brackets to run the Gbody AC. At any rate you can decide not to vent the gbody AC and set it where the plastic fuel tank vent box is (and relocate that if you want) in the front corner of the passenger side of the engine compartment. Simply run a shorter belt that will fit and run without the AC until you acquire the brackets and are ready to have your AC hooked up.
Its standard BOPC Buick Olds Pontiac Cadillac bellhousing that should fit your existing trans (200-4R? that would need beefed to handle the power) or any common bopc or universal bellhousing transmission. ie usually a th400 or th350. Why get a chevy specific bellhousing transmission? But to answer your question I believe I have seen chevy to BOPC adapters. These tire shredders are so much fun. I had a guy ask me once; can we do a power brake for the guys? Power brake!? We don't need no stinking brakes! Two fishtailing black streaks from a stop or from a roll no brakes required. 8)
www.cadillacpower.com/forum
www.caddy500.com
www.500cid.com
www.cadillacperformanceparts.com
www.cad500parts.com
www.northernautoparts.com
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