GM INCOMPETENT RECORD KEEPING

[blk7gxn]

I have to be honest, im EXTREMELY upset right at the moment at GM. I'm sure most of you take your G body passion pretty seriously. I TOO take it VERY seriously, and have researched, studied YOU name it, i've done it, i'm like a GM GURU Historian if that's what you would key it as, I could fill a small Library with books, manuals of EVERY kind ECT ECT. So when just today i learned that GM Buick division produced a 4 door Buick Century Turbo that they CLAIMED they never built, I was just a little bit perplexed. I never seen a company run as poorly as GM, for Pete sakes, how do you NOT keep records??!!! And when they do, they are so worthless its pathetic! Sure if you own a Corvette, you can get a list of how many they made right down to your color option on what day and what hour in what factory, the persons name of who installed the cigarette lighter and how many grandkids they have and if their mortgage payment was late and if they took 2 or 3 tablespoons of metamucil that morning !!! UNBELIEVABLE!!! Yet seems like the G body lineup was unimportant to GM at the time AND NOW...... I remember when i was trying to research (YEARS AND YEARS AGO) My 82 Grand National...I actually talked to SEVERAL people in Buick division at the TOP, and they claimed they never produced such a car....Im thinking to myself, is everyone at GM a blooming moron!?? And just today, learning they actually made a 4 door CTC in 1979, blew my mind. This is one of my favorite cars that I have done EXTENSIVE research on, im talking from A to Z research for the last 15 years, and again, have connections in GM to several currently employed and retired subjects who actually worked on the design ect of the CTC and even some who worked the assembly line itself who claimed they never made a 4 door Turbo in 1979, only in 1980 !!! I feel as if, why do I give such a big crap about GM vehicles if GM doesn't. I swear if i had to do it all over, id collect a different car manufacturers lineup. The incompetence of GM, NO WONDER why they are folding!!! .....rant over

 

[GP403]

Corvettes are (IIRC) All made in one facility dedicated to ONLY the Corvette, so them keeping records on everything is kind of a given, well, you'd think anyway.

But yeah, I don't get the lack of any information regarding detailed production numbers for our cars at all. Maybe there was an "incident" where records were lost and also the backups (assuming they existed) are buried Ark of the Covenant style in a warehouse somewhere. You'd think the info would be out there. Maybe somebody with some insight into the GM of the '70s and '80s could comment. Then again maybe everyone was too busy with coke and hookers (1980s F YEAH) to care.

 

[lilbowtie]

Hope you feel better now !!

 

[69hurstolds]

G-bodies were the jellybean cars of the 70s/80s. Like when I talked to the shift line manager in Arlington one day, he told me at the end of the production year, they just trashed whatever records they had. He said they didn't keep them past the model year. That's when I learned about the lack of body plates on Arlington cars.

My dad retired from Corvette assembly plant in 1986. They kept records upon records...but I also recall my dad coming home with those reams of IBM tractor paper with those green/white data entry separator bars on them. FULL of VIN data and all sorts of older production record junk on the printed side, when it was ordered, order number, VIN, dealer destination info, all that crap. It was a build summary for each shift. It was mainly used for scheduling adjustments and goals attainment, but had all the other stuff on it too. They were tossing them out in the trash! He just asked if he could take them out of the trash bin and take them home for scratch paper in his shop since he always would make little diagrams and junk in his wood shop. No problem. Build sheets were usually just crumpled up and thrown in the trash. A few of the "car guys" would make sure to put a build sheet in the car somewhere. Sometimes they just forgot them on the car by accident. They usually had one taped to the hood. One day I was helping him in his shop and I looked at the back side of the paper and was like WTF? They didn't even shred them. You would think they would.

And some records aren't always that detailed either. During the SLP Camaro/Firebird years of the fourth gens, Scott Settlemire was the Camaro Asst. Brand Manager, who went on to be in charge of the GM shows. Every year end he would sift through all the records they had and broke down the numbers as far as he could with the records they kept. Best he could do was T-top, Convertible, Hard top, colors, V6 or V8, Manual or Auto, and any special editions, like SS, Z28, and other mile-marker cars. Stuff like how many manual transmission cars had the remote CD changer? Couldn't tell us. Did it with the ZL1s too right before he retired. I have 1 of 54, 2013 ZL1 convertible 6 speed manual cars in Crystal Red Tintcoat. That's the best info I got on it. In Ste. Therese, they did have the ability to go back and re-print a build sheet for Camaros/Firebirds. I know they could because they did for me for my 2002 SS. It would take a LOT of time to sift through every build sheet though to match how many got the UU6 option, etc.

Car companies are in the business to sell cars and line the coffers with cash. They view cars a lot like refrigerators. An appliance. They don't care if it breaks after they make a sale and the warranty is gone. They want you to buy another. Not worry about what records they had. They keep what's mandated and if anything else, that's gravy. They did realize, sort of, that it might be good to keep some invoice records of cars going way way back as far as possible when the collectors started bugging them heavily about it. And they still do.

 

[gnvair]

I have researched a lot of GM info mostly with Chevrolets. It depends on the division and plant locations. Most US built Chevrolet lines going back to the 50s have no production information available for them. guys have been able to get production totals on specific engines from Tonawanda and Flint. They have also been able to get factory-installed option information out of Fisher. But detailed production information on Chevrolet car lines have been unavailable and many myths have been created including that they were lost in a fire which of course isn't true. Pontiac on the other hand kept detailed information which has made it very handy for documenting valuable models. The Canadian assembly lines also kept detailed production information. I know this because I sent away for the information for my current Canadian built 78 Malibu. The Buick production information I think has been relegated to just production numbers of specific models with no totals of specific options.

 

[fleming442]

The second rule of any crime is to destroy all evidence (first being elimination of witnesses).

 

[pontiacgp]

To the point where the top players in the Buick devision claimed your car was never built it's too bad you didn't ask how was it that you have the registration for the car that is based on the VIN that the manufactuer had to provide to the gov administration in order for the car to be sold the first time to the dealership and from there to owner

 

[1 RARE T]

There's a guy in Canada that has all the info. I wanna say he's an ex engineer for G.M.

His name is George Zorka or something like that. Maybe M.H.M. will remember since he's an old guy like me. There was a time you could give him $100 and he'd send you a letter with all the options, where it was built/originally sold/production #'s etc.

I gave the one I had to the fella that bought my Limited.

Who knows, he might not be with us anymore.

 

[lilbowtie]

Try the Sloan Museum they are great w/ Buick stuff.

 

[clean8485]

There's a guy in Canada that has all the info. I wanna say he's an ex engineer for G.M.

His name is George Zorka or something like that. Maybe M.H.M. will remember since he's an old guy like me. There was a time you could give him $100 and he'd send you a letter with all the options, where it was built/originally sold/production #'s etc.

I gave the one I had to the fella that bought my Limited.

Who knows, he might not be with us anymore.

I believe his name is George Zapora, and he works for Vintage Vehicle Services in Oshawa. I had them prepare a report on my '80 Malibu several years ago. The cost is $125CDN. They can provide documentation on an older GM vehicle, providing it was originally titled and sold in Canada. This applies to U.S. built vehicles as well, as long as it was sold new in Canada. If the car was originally sold in the States, then they can't help you, since they only have access to records for vehicles that were sold in Canada. For vehicles that were sold new in the States, then you have to get documentation through other sources.