I am baffled of why it won't start!
- Thread starter Ezlikesundaymorn
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Ok everyone-
Drumroll please...
There are 2 fuses in the box under dash, an IGN/ECM is main one (30A) & a bit higher I saw another labeled only IGN that was only 7.5A, the lower amp fuse was blown. Put in another 7.5A fuse, tried to start & got the same ole nothingness.
Checked the fuses again, 7.5A popped again.
Put 10A fuse in that spot & the noid light began pulsating.
Plugged injectors in & it fired right up.
I had went by to talk to a cat I went to high school with that's been turning wrenches at the same shop for 20yrs, to pick his brain for the 2nd time. He actually said it sounded like he just needed to come out to pop's place to check it out, which blew me away & I said hell yea!
He brought 3 or 4 different pieces of diagnostic equipment & a 12 pack of Budweiser, did some tests & we finally go it running. He did say however I needed to figure out why the fuse was blowing & to carry a box of fuses with from then on. I'm not one to just half-*ss it & keep replacing fuses, so after following wires I noticed 2 of the wires going to the injectors was flattened out due to the 2 or 3 inch spacer that goes on top of the throttle body & below the air cleaner.
I straitened them out, rerouted them the way I believe they were from factory & haven't had a problem since.
It's wild something so simple was the fix, but would've cost me a pretty penny had I towed it I somewhere to be figured out. A pebble from the gravel road goin to pop's place did cause the initial gas leak, which the drop I pressure must cause the lower amp fuse to blow...so maybe one won't damage injectors by cranking while no gas going trough them? Possibly they'd get hot? That's purely speculation of course.
At any rate, man do I appreciate you members & all your help, info & suggestions!
Oh yea, turns out my buddy actually saw his chance to finally get the opportunity to check out what all my dad has out here at his place. Yes, he's got many old cars & a slew of parts & a lot of them some level of rare. He never tells me just how rare, but for instance he's got five 427's of different factory horsepower levels, one of which is a warranty factory replacement motor that replaced any 396 from '68 or '69, so it qualifies as a "numbers maching" due to being a warranty serial number. If someone came across say a '68/'69 big block Camaro, El Camino, Nova or Chevelle SS, RS, Yenko, etc. with no motor, that motor would instantly make it more valuable. The cars he has are mostly in the Impala family, from 1964-1974 2 door cars (including '65 SS convertible & two '69 SS convertibles), some are 4 door & parts cars. The stuff he buys is incredibly rust free, as he buys most all of the 30 or 40 cars & trucks out here as barn finds or at various auctions...Kansas has ALOT of old barns! He's also got a super clean '65 Buick Skylark convertible, '64 Plymouth Sport Fury, '72 Demon Dart both Mopars have wicked sounding big block motors, a '55 Apache p/u from a Resto shop closure, a couple t-top G-Body Monte Carlos, a 40s Plymouth p/u & more. He bought this house & land at an estate auction not looking for a house, but the guy who had passed dusted crops with a couple planes...so it has a flippin airplane hanger for a "garage". It had a dirt floor when he got it but had a 5" slab poured in it after buying the place. The garage is so big, the 4 concrete trucks pouring the slab turned around inside the building...didn't need to go outside. I used to play football in college & I'm sure it's bigger than the field we'd play on.
Anyhoo, sorry for running on a bit but I kept telling pops how helpful you all had been & he said for me to maybe let you all know most all the stuff he has, he'd sell so he can make room for more. Oh, he also is going to sell his 2004 Wildwood LE 30ft 5th wheel type travel trailer that extends out, that he bought brand new, selling for a smoking price of $5k. It's in incredible condition & has the bunkhouse section in the rear for the kids...or the in-laws.
Let me know if you know anyone looking...for anything, because if he doesn't have it he knows a lot of people that collect too. I can send or post pics, either way.
Thanks to everyone, this is the 1st time I've ever utilized a forum like this & it has been a great experience
Drumroll please...
There are 2 fuses in the box under dash, an IGN/ECM is main one (30A) & a bit higher I saw another labeled only IGN that was only 7.5A, the lower amp fuse was blown. Put in another 7.5A fuse, tried to start & got the same ole nothingness.
Checked the fuses again, 7.5A popped again.
Put 10A fuse in that spot & the noid light began pulsating.
Plugged injectors in & it fired right up.
I had went by to talk to a cat I went to high school with that's been turning wrenches at the same shop for 20yrs, to pick his brain for the 2nd time. He actually said it sounded like he just needed to come out to pop's place to check it out, which blew me away & I said hell yea!
He brought 3 or 4 different pieces of diagnostic equipment & a 12 pack of Budweiser, did some tests & we finally go it running. He did say however I needed to figure out why the fuse was blowing & to carry a box of fuses with from then on. I'm not one to just half-*ss it & keep replacing fuses, so after following wires I noticed 2 of the wires going to the injectors was flattened out due to the 2 or 3 inch spacer that goes on top of the throttle body & below the air cleaner.
I straitened them out, rerouted them the way I believe they were from factory & haven't had a problem since.
It's wild something so simple was the fix, but would've cost me a pretty penny had I towed it I somewhere to be figured out. A pebble from the gravel road goin to pop's place did cause the initial gas leak, which the drop I pressure must cause the lower amp fuse to blow...so maybe one won't damage injectors by cranking while no gas going trough them? Possibly they'd get hot? That's purely speculation of course.
At any rate, man do I appreciate you members & all your help, info & suggestions!
Oh yea, turns out my buddy actually saw his chance to finally get the opportunity to check out what all my dad has out here at his place. Yes, he's got many old cars & a slew of parts & a lot of them some level of rare. He never tells me just how rare, but for instance he's got five 427's of different factory horsepower levels, one of which is a warranty factory replacement motor that replaced any 396 from '68 or '69, so it qualifies as a "numbers maching" due to being a warranty serial number. If someone came across say a '68/'69 big block Camaro, El Camino, Nova or Chevelle SS, RS, Yenko, etc. with no motor, that motor would instantly make it more valuable. The cars he has are mostly in the Impala family, from 1964-1974 2 door cars (including '65 SS convertible & two '69 SS convertibles), some are 4 door & parts cars. The stuff he buys is incredibly rust free, as he buys most all of the 30 or 40 cars & trucks out here as barn finds or at various auctions...Kansas has ALOT of old barns! He's also got a super clean '65 Buick Skylark convertible, '64 Plymouth Sport Fury, '72 Demon Dart both Mopars have wicked sounding big block motors, a '55 Apache p/u from a Resto shop closure, a couple t-top G-Body Monte Carlos, a 40s Plymouth p/u & more. He bought this house & land at an estate auction not looking for a house, but the guy who had passed dusted crops with a couple planes...so it has a flippin airplane hanger for a "garage". It had a dirt floor when he got it but had a 5" slab poured in it after buying the place. The garage is so big, the 4 concrete trucks pouring the slab turned around inside the building...didn't need to go outside. I used to play football in college & I'm sure it's bigger than the field we'd play on.
Anyhoo, sorry for running on a bit but I kept telling pops how helpful you all had been & he said for me to maybe let you all know most all the stuff he has, he'd sell so he can make room for more. Oh, he also is going to sell his 2004 Wildwood LE 30ft 5th wheel type travel trailer that extends out, that he bought brand new, selling for a smoking price of $5k. It's in incredible condition & has the bunkhouse section in the rear for the kids...or the in-laws.
Let me know if you know anyone looking...for anything, because if he doesn't have it he knows a lot of people that collect too. I can send or post pics, either way.
Thanks to everyone, this is the 1st time I've ever utilized a forum like this & it has been a great experience
Last edited:
Opie Knievel
Rum Fueled Midnight Mechanic and Moderator
Glad to hear that you got the Monte running again! Those "simple" fixes can be pretty aggravating sometimes.
Sounds like your dad has a lot of cool old cars. We'd love to see some pics. I'd like to see some more pics of your Monte Carlo too.
Sounds like your dad has a lot of cool old cars. We'd love to see some pics. I'd like to see some more pics of your Monte Carlo too.
Good news indeed EZ.
Great story attached...I love reading about collectors of neat stuff.
Great story attached...I love reading about collectors of neat stuff.
What an amazing story. And I'm glad it was a simple fix. For future reference- a hand held vacuum gauge usually doubles as a fuel pump tester. Look at the scale on the other side of zero.
Well, the 1st thing is just the fact that you have fuel means little. You need to get a static fuel pressure reading AND a fuel volume reading. Been awhile since I worked on a TBI 4.3, and I'm near certain this has a 4.3 TBI engine....but if you have inadequate fuel pressure or volume, you'll have issues. The quick test to see if your issue is fuel related is to remove the air cleaner assembly, have someone crank the engine while spraying some Berkible 2+2 carburetor cleaner into the throttle body. If it now runs, your issue is in the fuel system...be it a pump, blocked filter, blocked injectors (you mentioned badly corroded fuel lines) etc. I recommend the Berkible 2+2 carb cleaner over any form of ether as it is far safer and far less likely to cause damage. Engines will run just fine on Berkible 2+2 carburetor cleaner. I've been using it in my shop for 30 years+.
All gas engine need a few basic items to run. You must have a mechanically "sound" engine..meaning you need compression, and the valve timing must not be off (jumped/stretched chain etc).You also need to be getting air, fuel & spark, at the right time.
I live in North-eastern Pennsylvania, home of the "liquid vehicle dissolving fluid" Penndot sprays on the roads all throughout the winter. Ferrous metals and this sh*t are a horrific mix. I see vehicles as new as 4-5 years old that are already exhibiting signs of severe corrosion issues. Your fuel line rusted apart bad enough to leak, which means there is a high chance a lot of flakes of rust made there way into the fuel filter. The easiest way to check this is to get out an amp meter and run the pump (with the amp probe on the fuel pump power/supply wire)) & take your reading. A healthy pump with an unrestricted fuel system should have 2.5-5 amps on this car. It it is drawing 7-10 amps, not only is your pump badly worn and nearing the end of its service life, you most likely are trying to ram fuel through a restriction. You also used a compression union. Being the fuel line is already substantially less strong than it was when new, there is a small chance you crushed the fuel line, creating a massive restriction. I highly recommend double flaring the line and using a threaded union. If the line is too far gone to get a good double flare on the line, it needs to be replaced anyway. Then there is the question of IF the line was rusted out before or after the filter. If before, you can remove the filter and try to blow through it. There should be minimal to no resistance, making it effortless to blow air through it. If you have to blow real hard, your filter is blocked and the pump is most likely badly hurt. If the rusted out section was between the engine and the filer, there is a decent chance there is "trash" restricting what fuel can flow through the very fine mesh screns that are there to protect the injectors from being bombarded with dirt. The Jeep 4.0l engine is notorious for this as the fuel rail itself rusts apart on the insied, blocking the tiny screens that filter the fuel going to each injector.
If you have fuel, air, spark, compression etc...pull your plugs to make sure they're not soaked/flooded. If they are flooded, be sure to squirt some 10w30 engine oil into each cylinder (a baby spoon is more than enough, in other words, no more than .5 ounce per cylinder!) as that will allow the rings to seal and bring your compression back up. This engine did have failures at the ignition module, which would leave you with a no spark issue. I can definitely steer you in the right direction IF i have all of the necessary information.
Does it have spark? Are the plugs fuel or oil fouled? What are the compression #'s dry AND wet (adding oil to each cylinder gives a "wet" compression reading) what is your fuel pressure and how much fuel will the pump pump out in a 5 second period (fluid ounces) (have to hot-wire the pump or cycle the key and time each pump cycle) etc.
My last idea is an oddball, but I've seen it often enough it is worth asking. Does the car have an aftermarket alarm system on it? Not only are these things a nightmare as they screw with a professional technician's diagnosis, they're almost ALWAYS improperly wired, meaning there is no solder & shrink tubing anywhere...and those inexpensive solder-less connectors most people use are garbage due to the fact they can and do corrode (you mention salty air, I've seen myriads of wiring connection issues on these types of vehicles) causing all sorts of no crank and crank/no start issues.
If you haven't found your answer yet, let me know. If you can get me this information, i am confident I can steer you in the right direction.
Kirk Bonanny
Owner: Harry Bonanny & Son Automotive LLC, Bonanny Chassis Engineering
ASE Master Tech with L1 & L2 certs +++++++++
[email protected]
All gas engine need a few basic items to run. You must have a mechanically "sound" engine..meaning you need compression, and the valve timing must not be off (jumped/stretched chain etc).You also need to be getting air, fuel & spark, at the right time.
I live in North-eastern Pennsylvania, home of the "liquid vehicle dissolving fluid" Penndot sprays on the roads all throughout the winter. Ferrous metals and this sh*t are a horrific mix. I see vehicles as new as 4-5 years old that are already exhibiting signs of severe corrosion issues. Your fuel line rusted apart bad enough to leak, which means there is a high chance a lot of flakes of rust made there way into the fuel filter. The easiest way to check this is to get out an amp meter and run the pump (with the amp probe on the fuel pump power/supply wire)) & take your reading. A healthy pump with an unrestricted fuel system should have 2.5-5 amps on this car. It it is drawing 7-10 amps, not only is your pump badly worn and nearing the end of its service life, you most likely are trying to ram fuel through a restriction. You also used a compression union. Being the fuel line is already substantially less strong than it was when new, there is a small chance you crushed the fuel line, creating a massive restriction. I highly recommend double flaring the line and using a threaded union. If the line is too far gone to get a good double flare on the line, it needs to be replaced anyway. Then there is the question of IF the line was rusted out before or after the filter. If before, you can remove the filter and try to blow through it. There should be minimal to no resistance, making it effortless to blow air through it. If you have to blow real hard, your filter is blocked and the pump is most likely badly hurt. If the rusted out section was between the engine and the filer, there is a decent chance there is "trash" restricting what fuel can flow through the very fine mesh screns that are there to protect the injectors from being bombarded with dirt. The Jeep 4.0l engine is notorious for this as the fuel rail itself rusts apart on the insied, blocking the tiny screens that filter the fuel going to each injector.
If you have fuel, air, spark, compression etc...pull your plugs to make sure they're not soaked/flooded. If they are flooded, be sure to squirt some 10w30 engine oil into each cylinder (a baby spoon is more than enough, in other words, no more than .5 ounce per cylinder!) as that will allow the rings to seal and bring your compression back up. This engine did have failures at the ignition module, which would leave you with a no spark issue. I can definitely steer you in the right direction IF i have all of the necessary information.
Does it have spark? Are the plugs fuel or oil fouled? What are the compression #'s dry AND wet (adding oil to each cylinder gives a "wet" compression reading) what is your fuel pressure and how much fuel will the pump pump out in a 5 second period (fluid ounces) (have to hot-wire the pump or cycle the key and time each pump cycle) etc.
My last idea is an oddball, but I've seen it often enough it is worth asking. Does the car have an aftermarket alarm system on it? Not only are these things a nightmare as they screw with a professional technician's diagnosis, they're almost ALWAYS improperly wired, meaning there is no solder & shrink tubing anywhere...and those inexpensive solder-less connectors most people use are garbage due to the fact they can and do corrode (you mention salty air, I've seen myriads of wiring connection issues on these types of vehicles) causing all sorts of no crank and crank/no start issues.
If you haven't found your answer yet, let me know. If you can get me this information, i am confident I can steer you in the right direction.
Kirk Bonanny
Owner: Harry Bonanny & Son Automotive LLC, Bonanny Chassis Engineering
ASE Master Tech with L1 & L2 certs +++++++++
[email protected]
That was an incredibly comprehensive diagnosis! Welcome to the forum Kirk. The Jeep comment answers a nagging situation I have- two Jeep 4.0's that eat injectors. So it is probably rust from the fuel rail- never heard that before but it makes sense. Nice Bass too- we think alike!
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