EL CAMINO Let’s talk computer carbs and obd1

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Gremlinsteve

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Mar 6, 2018
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I’m about to take a serious plunge in swapping a pretty hot lil 360 cid engine into the truck

I’m contemplating running the nearly perfect running ccc system
It’s currently bolted to the 305 and runs very good. Almost as good as one woulda run new

the carby is in fact new rebuilt and I currently operate the car with a new chip flashed with the old zz4 timing ect changes

so. Does anyone have a good argument or experience here that can tell me why I should run a normal non ccc carby (quadrajet from mountain man) and a normal hei

versus

the ccc carby and stock computer controlled distributor.

the car won’t be raced. And the specs of the cam in the motor is 224/230 on a 110 lsa hyd roller
10.6 compression
2300 stall and 342 gears
 

kornball426

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May 29, 2009
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One reason I can think of is simplicity. A good chunk of wiring can be removed from under the hood and cleaned up.

I honestly don't think the CCC carb has any advantages over the traditional stuff, fairly sure it's mostly there for emissions reasons, and if you're deleting the smog pump, and EGR, which most people do... I don't see any point to keeping it. And I'm sure the stock distributor will work for a warmed over motor, I don't think it has any inherent advantage, infact this is just a guess, but I'd be willing to be the ECU has programmed ignition curves specifically for economy rather than performance. Going with completely mechanical or vacuum advance with or without an MSD style adjustable ignition box will give you whatever timing you want, not what GM decided was best for a 160 horsepower wheezing 305 over 30 years ago. Just my opinion though... I'm no expert.
 

Clone TIE Pilot

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I would keep the CCC, it does have finer fuel control over normal carbs and should have better gas mileage and longer engine life. Plus the CCC carb can adjust itself to baro and attitude changes to an extent. The stock dist with CCC systems lacks timing advance, its entirely ECM controlled except for the built in limp home minor advance. Plus CCC has knock retard which is a handy feature.

The ZZ4 chip has hotter timing curves, fuel curves, and less knock retard than a standard chip. FYI to other posters, the ZZ4 chip was a hotter chip GMPP sold by itself and also came with ZZ4 crate engines for F bodies. Only change I would do is upgrade to a heated O2 sensor.
 
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kornball426

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How would one check if these features are still in working order? And assuming typical mods where made such as an intake without EGR, or the smog pump adding fresh air directly to the exhaust stream, would the stock or even ZZ4 chip in the stock ECU be able to understand the mods and still be able to make proper fueling adjustments?

I'm legitimately curious, it just seems to me that if other emissions equipment is deleted the computer would need to have a custom chip burned or the engine would see a rich condition (due to lack of oxygen being pumped directly into the exhaust), and constantly be trying to lean the fuel mixture for no good reason. Am I wrong?

I didn't know there were chips for these CCC carbs... I thought everyone just tossed them for a Holley or a old fashioned non computer Q-jet, or edelbrock. That's been what most people I know have done. I put a rebuilt regular Q-Jet on my old Regal, and my brother had a edelbrock on his monte SS.
 

Gremlinsteve

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Mar 6, 2018
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Yes it runs a zz4 chip

Keep coming with the ideas. I would for sure delete ccc control if I remove the egr and other equipment like the smog pump
 

axisg

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I recall a few detailed write ups over at MCSS site about retaining the CCC system with a hotter motor. Not much traffic there but should still be a bunch in the archives
 
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Clone TIE Pilot

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How would one check if these features are still in working order? And assuming typical mods where made such as an intake without EGR, or the smog pump adding fresh air directly to the exhaust stream, would the stock or even ZZ4 chip in the stock ECU be able to understand the mods and still be able to make proper fueling adjustments?

I'm legitimately curious, it just seems to me that if other emissions equipment is deleted the computer would need to have a custom chip burned or the engine would see a rich condition (due to lack of oxygen being pumped directly into the exhaust), and constantly be trying to lean the fuel mixture for no good reason. Am I wrong?

I didn't know there were chips for these CCC carbs... I thought everyone just tossed them for a Holley or a old fashioned non computer Q-jet, or edelbrock. That's been what most people I know have done. I put a rebuilt regular Q-Jet on my old Regal, and my brother had a edelbrock on his monte SS.

Back in the day they used to sell OBD1 scanners like the Brainmaster that both reads trouble codes and displays live sensor data. They can be picked up used for pretty cheap now. Another tool are the old analog dwell meters to read the fuel mixture.

Some of the emissions can be deleted without affecting the ECM. You can remove the smog pump and the ECM would not know its gone. I have a mild pertormance cam in my motor and the CCC works fine with it, as long as you still have decent vacuum the ECM will be happy. Eddy makes performance intakes that retains EGR, even GM sells Qjet pattern intakes for Vortec heads that have EGR ports. Original ZZ4 chips delete EGR. Both Eddy and Hooker used to make direct fit emission legal headers for Monte Carlos and F bodies. Just about any headers can be made to work with the CCC as long as you install a O2 sensor bung.

With the CCC Qjet, the secondary side is still pure mechanical. At WOT, the ECM goes into full rich mode for power enrichment. The carb may need richer secondary rods with a 350 swap.
 
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Gremlinsteve

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Back in the day they used to sell OBD1 scanners like the Brainmaster that both reads trouble codes and displays live sensor data. They can be picked up used for pretty cheap now. Another tool are the old analog dwell meters to read the fuel mixture.

Some of the emissions can be deleted without affecting the ECM. You can remove the smog pump and the ECM would not know its gone. I have a mild pertormance cam in my motor and the CCC works fine with it, as long as you still have decent vacuum the ECM will be happy. Eddy makes performance intakes that retains EGR, even GM sells Qjet pattern intakes for Vortec heads that have EGR ports. Original ZZ4 chips delete EGR. Both Eddy and Hooker used to make direct fit emission legal headers for Monte Carlos and F bodies. Just about any headers can be made to work with the CCC as long as you install a O2 sensor bung.

With the CCC Qjet, the secondary side is still pure mechanical. At WOT, the ECM goes into full rich mode for power enrichment. The carb may need richer secondary rods with a 350 swap.




What are your cam specs
 

Clone TIE Pilot

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Its the ole Crane 2040 Powermax cam, .50 duration is 210/216, lift is .440/.454, LSA 114.
 

Gremlinsteve

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Mar 6, 2018
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Ok
im going to try it with the ccc obd1 and emissions equipment running

if that won’t work then I’ll remove it and go normal hei and a normal mountain man qjet
 
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