Manual Transmission Options

[motorheadmike]

I know... I know... T56 or no stick...

I am looking at manual transmission options for my Monte and I keep wanting to go back to a M-22; but then I learned of an M23!

http://www.chevydiy.com/how-to-build-high-performance-muncie-4-speed-transmissions/

The interesting thing is AGE is just a few hours from my house (which is in Canada). So this becomes a very attractive option if I have issues or need it serviced.
http://www.autogear.net/motorsports/

The cost of entry is about $1000 less than a Magnum T56 (yes, I know the Muncie has two less gears), it weighs about half of the T56 (80ish pounds), has the same hp/tq capacity (800/800), and can be had with 32 spline in and output shafts. I looked at face plated and modified T56s, but those are mega bucks. I believe that the Muncie option makes clutch and bell housing/scatter sheild options more affordable too.

I don't care about gas mileage or noise issues, or revving the snot out of the little 4.8L, or a mechanical clutch - I am building a strip car that is streetable.

Any thoughts on why I shouldn't pursue this?

 

[307 Regal]

"The point here is that some 5-speeds are essentially wide-ratio 4-speeds with an overdrive. In fifth gear, a 3.73:1 rear axle with a close-ratio TKO-600 would be equivalent to dropping down to a 3.06:1 rear (.81 x 3.73). You can achieve the same economy by changing your rear-end gear to a 3.08:1 ratio,"

That statement literally just made me question every decision I've ever made about "what gearbox I should buy." I need to quit being a pleb and start paying attention to gear ratios.

I can't tell you not to do this. Can't think of a new reason. Since you don't care about the latest and greatest in performance (quite a dangerous thing to care about), that frees up the focus to go to "fun." And at less money, less weight (thinking of the installation), and probably less trans tunnel mods (still thinking of the installation) I'd suppose you should just go for it. Performance aside, any stick shift is still a stick shift.

 

[fleming442]

I have an AutoGear M22w in my 67. The M23 is basically a 22 with a modular countergear assembly which allows you to tailor the ratios better to your application. Both withstand more torque than your entry level T56.
As far as the rear gear goes, anything steeper than a 3.73 loses fun points on the highway quickly. So, that leaves you pondering 1st gear ratios for launch. I had a 22 (2.20 1st) with a 3.70 rear, and it was a dog out of the hole. The 22w's 2.56 got me closer to the 10:1 magic launch ratio. I have a 22 gearset minus 1st gear I'd sell if you want to build one. The straight gear whine is worth the admission price alone!

 

[online170]

Mike, my buddy who lives in your neck of the woods has an autogear trans. Its an absolute quality piece and you wont be disappointed with it if you go that route. But back then when we finished the swap, we were surprised that the price ended being about the same as a TKO600 swap would have been. Roughly $1000 CAD difference. We had to do the shipping across border and the whole deal.

You pretty much know all the ups and downs of both worlds. 4 gears vs 6. OD vs no OD. Internal vs. external linkage. Clutch options. Weight, HP loss etc...

I spend most of my time driving my cars, so every last ounce of performance isn't worth much to me. But I will go for "bang for the buck" type gains, where you see and feel improvement. For me the feel of the internally shifted T56 and overdrive will always win. Im much faster with the T56 and I like how easy it is to shift. But to someone else, that gear whine, and the feel of the external linkage are a must. Depends what you're going for.

You could also have your cake and eat it too. Get a close ratio Muncie and add a GV-overdrive to it.

If you go the AGE route, you would be smart to explore having it installed there, and then just drive back.

 

[Bonnewagon]

I say- YES! I still drive only 4-speeds and I tailor the gear ratios to my usage. I prefer a steep first gear so I can use highway gears out back. GM did the same thing before 5-speeds were common and I have two GM Borg-Warners with the 3:42 first. . But I always felt the original GM Muncies were weak. My buddy busted up quite a few. This AGE unit looks to be the ultimate 4-speed. The choice of ratios is really appealing. Fewer gears can be plenty of fun- I once had a '67 Firebird that came with an HO 400 and a Borg-Warner heavy duty 3-speed. People forget that GTO's, Chevelles, Firebirds, Camaro's, all came with 3-speed manual transmissions stock unless you upgraded. It had a 2:56 first gear and 3:55 rear gears. Not quite the ideal 10 to one overall first- but she took off just fine. Second gear really wound out and I actually spent most of my time in second on the street. I absolutely loved that transmission and I still have it. If you go with the AGE unit I think you will be suffering from smile-itis.

 

[motorheadmike]

Thanks guys!

For those not following the Monte build it is going to have a high revving turbo 4.8L, 4.56 gears, and 29.5" tall tires. Manual R&P steering, and manual brakes. It is my expectation that the car will weigh 3000lbs or less when "completed".

 

[TURNA]

If it's a strip car M-22/23 with 4:11's

There is no other choice unless you go with 4:56's for the 1/8 mile

 

[TURNA]

oops just seen ur last post.........duh

 

[UNGN]

What rear axle? The 8.5's will last forever if loaded first (footbrake, autotrans) but don't take kindly to a shock load (Turbo V8 Clutch Drop).

A taller first gear (2.5's vs. a 5/6 speeds 3.X) might save the rear axle if its an 8.5 or smaller.

 

[MrSony]

any stick shift is still a stick shift.

Drive a worn out cable shifted Early 90s Ford Aspire and you'd wish you had an auto. 1st in one zipcode, 2nd in another...