Need help w/ a few things! 🙏 TBI conversion to Carb.

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CopperNick

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By way of elaborating on some of my comments;

The first thing that ought to happen here is that you head for the book store or speed shop and score a repair manual for the year of your car. Haynes is one publisher; there are others. Apart from the general manuals there are component specific texts including those for transmissions. They are heavy on pictures to describe what is going on and include shots of the various pans that can be used to identify what your transmission is.

My comments on lockup versus non-lockup seem to require some clarification. The first thing here is that you apparently no longer have either the original engine or its matching transmission. But, what might still be lingering is the remains of the systems that supported that original combo. Without close up shots of the top of the engine it is difficult to decide if your swapper just stuffed in that 350 and then topped it with whatever used to be on the 305, or not.

Here is the point of division. IF the replacement engine came with its own transmission, and that t-body is a three speed as you say, then the probability is extremely high that you have no lock up in that transmission. However, and not trying to confuse things unnecessarily here, there was a variant of the 350 that was offered in 1980, that did come with the third gear lockup. (I actually have one on my shop floor right now that I just pulled from my 80 G-10 Van.) They display the same or a similar plug in as does the 700R4 and the 200R4 but there is only one wire plugged into it. The 350 also possesses a cable that gets attached to the throttle lever on the carb but this is NOT a TVC unit. There still ought to be a vacuum line running from the manifold to the vacuum module on the right side of the 350 t-mission near the back. This cable and vacuum line are all about how "passing gear or demand downshift" is achieved. Essentially when you hammer the throttle, the lever pulls the butterflies wide open as well has pulling that cable out to its limit, AT the same time the vacuum signal off the manifold increases which tells the module that the vehicle is accelerating hard and that the t-mission either has to downshift to help the acceleration or to keep it in action until the throttle is eased off at which point you would feel the shift into third and the engine rpms would drop.

As for what the 305 had to accompany it for a transmission, that was likely a TH200R4 as they were common around that time. That was a 4spd, and it did have the lockup electrical connection located on the drivers side of the case. That plug had two wires as did the 700R4, both of whom had the venerable 350 case as their grandfather. The 200 also comes with a cable that IS NOT for demand down shift. That cable is called the TVC for Transmission velocity cable and how it works is to open and close a valve internal to the t-mission governing internal ATF fluid line pressure and shifting gears through the range as the fluid pressures call for it. NOT going to go into how to adjust it. I just went through that drill and PITA does not begin to describe it.

Do be aware that I am discussing what used to be in the car, not what me there now.

From your description of the carb, it may have a better future as a paperweight. Both Edelbrock and Holley make spread bore style carbs with the electric choke. Electric chokes are something of a nuisance because as soon as the key is turned off the choke element tries to close the primary choke plate. Hot or warm starts get done without any gas pedal input. Whacking the throttle to send gas down stream is about guaranteed to flood it. Be aware that the secondaries will open only when there is enough vacuum to pull them open which brings us back to passing again. At idle and around town, it is the primary side of the carb that does all the work.

The only sure way I know to determine whether the mill is roller or non roller is to lift the manifold and look for the presence of the frog plate in the lifter valley.

The ECM or EEE that the car came with is NOT available aftermarket. They are obsolete. There are a couple of experienced greyer beards on this board who can talk you through adapting a cpu type processing system to run the car if you really want to go there. It can be done but.... the wiring is a bear.

Hope this clears up some of my initial information feed.



Nick
 

08Malibu

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Feb 9, 2014
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By way of elaborating on some of my comments;

The first thing that ought to happen here is that you head for the book store or speed shop and score a repair manual for the year of your car. Haynes is one publisher; there are others. Apart from the general manuals there are component specific texts including those for transmissions. They are heavy on pictures to describe what is going on and include shots of the various pans that can be used to identify what your transmission is.

My comments on lockup versus non-lockup seem to require some clarification. The first thing here is that you apparently no longer have either the original engine or its matching transmission. But, what might still be lingering is the remains of the systems that supported that original combo. Without close up shots of the top of the engine it is difficult to decide if your swapper just stuffed in that 350 and then topped it with whatever used to be on the 305, or not.

Here is the point of division. IF the replacement engine came with its own transmission, and that t-body is a three speed as you say, then the probability is extremely high that you have no lock up in that transmission. However, and not trying to confuse things unnecessarily here, there was a variant of the 350 that was offered in 1980, that did come with the third gear lockup. (I actually have one on my shop floor right now that I just pulled from my 80 G-10 Van.) They display the same or a similar plug in as does the 700R4 and the 200R4 but there is only one wire plugged into it. The 350 also possesses a cable that gets attached to the throttle lever on the carb but this is NOT a TVC unit. There still ought to be a vacuum line running from the manifold to the vacuum module on the right side of the 350 t-mission near the back. This cable and vacuum line are all about how "passing gear or demand downshift" is achieved. Essentially when you hammer the throttle, the lever pulls the butterflies wide open as well has pulling that cable out to its limit, AT the same time the vacuum signal off the manifold increases which tells the module that the vehicle is accelerating hard and that the t-mission either has to downshift to help the acceleration or to keep it in action until the throttle is eased off at which point you would feel the shift into third and the engine rpms would drop.

As for what the 305 had to accompany it for a transmission, that was likely a TH200R4 as they were common around that time. That was a 4spd, and it did have the lockup electrical connection located on the drivers side of the case. That plug had two wires as did the 700R4, both of whom had the venerable 350 case as their grandfather. The 200 also comes with a cable that IS NOT for demand down shift. That cable is called the TVC for Transmission velocity cable and how it works is to open and close a valve internal to the t-mission governing internal ATF fluid line pressure and shifting gears through the range as the fluid pressures call for it. NOT going to go into how to adjust it. I just went through that drill and PITA does not begin to describe it.

Do be aware that I am discussing what used to be in the car, not what me there now.

From your description of the carb, it may have a better future as a paperweight. Both Edelbrock and Holley make spread bore style carbs with the electric choke. Electric chokes are something of a nuisance because as soon as the key is turned off the choke element tries to close the primary choke plate. Hot or warm starts get done without any gas pedal input. Whacking the throttle to send gas down stream is about guaranteed to flood it. Be aware that the secondaries will open only when there is enough vacuum to pull them open which brings us back to passing again. At idle and around town, it is the primary side of the carb that does all the work.

The only sure way I know to determine whether the mill is roller or non roller is to lift the manifold and look for the presence of the frog plate in the lifter valley.

The ECM or EEE that the car came with is NOT available aftermarket. They are obsolete. There are a couple of experienced greyer beards on this board who can talk you through adapting a cpu type processing system to run the car if you really want to go there. It can be done but.... the wiring is a bear.

Hope this clears up some of my initial information feed.



Nick
If you look back, the flipper took the tbi engine from a full size gm truck and installed it in his car.
 

CopperNick

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Yeah, he did. he describes what he got with the car as purchased from the flipper as being a 1995 350/5.7 with the centre bolt valve covers, presumably a Vortec, from a truck. No mention is made of what transmission got used and whether or not the swapper kept the t-mission that came with the car or used the one that came with the truck.

That engine is already the source of some confusion and questions in previous comments made above as the intake it came with may be incorrect in terms of the angle of the mounting bolts to the heads it has versus what its part number says it is supposed to have. Suggestion offered above is that it had been "adapted" somehow using spacers or possibly changing the angle of the holes in the manifold with a air grinder and suitable tip to get things to line up. For myself I don't think someone who is just building a cash cow to flog for a profit and using components ready to hand to do it would go to the trouble of buying those tapered wedge profile spacers just to tweak a manifold to fit unless the correct manifold is unavailable and more expensive than using the wedges. Who knows?

All anything I have noted in my posts is to the end of providing him both some idea of what his car should have been fitted with in terms of a transmission when it left the factory, that "factory" may not what it has for a slush box now and that the changes and upgrades in t-missions can be a source of problems for the drive train if they haven't been linked to the engine correctly.

Once he sorts out all the glitches and orphans in his various engine systems he can either drive it as it is or start accumulating the year/model correct parts to return it to year/model correct, or blow that 5.7 apart and bore/stroke it or any one of a dozen or more possible options. Up to him.



Nick
 

MonteLS_84

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Jul 28, 2021
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Yeah, he did. he describes what he got with the car as purchased from the flipper as being a 1995 350/5.7 with the centre bolt valve covers, presumably a Vortec, from a truck. No mention is made of what transmission got used and whether or not the swapper kept the t-mission that came with the car or used the one that came with the truck.

That engine is already the source of some confusion and questions in previous comments made above as the intake it came with may be incorrect in terms of the angle of the mounting bolts to the heads it has versus what its part number says it is supposed to have. Suggestion offered above is that it had been "adapted" somehow using spacers or possibly changing the angle of the holes in the manifold with a air grinder and suitable tip to get things to line up. For myself I don't think someone who is just building a cash cow to flog for a profit and using components ready to hand to do it would go to the trouble of buying those tapered wedge profile spacers just to tweak a manifold to fit unless the correct manifold is unavailable and more expensive than using the wedges. Who knows?

All anything I have noted in my posts is to the end of providing him both some idea of what his car should have been fitted with in terms of a transmission when it left the factory, that "factory" may not what it has for a slush box now and that the changes and upgrades in t-missions can be a source of problems for the drive train if they haven't been linked to the engine correctly.

Once he sorts out all the glitches and orphans in his various engine systems he can either drive it as it is or start accumulating the year/model correct parts to return it to year/model correct, or blow that 5.7 apart and bore/stroke it or any one of a dozen or more possible options. Up to him.



Nick
Hi Nick. I crawled underneath as best I could. The trans seems to have 13 bolts, with a slant in the pan. Looks like th350.

I got ahold of the seller. He did not swap trans, only engine. A worker of his did the actual swap, and he does not recall if anything was or wasn't "hooked up" to the trans.

According to Google, all but 3 1984 Monte Carlos had 3 speed automatic transmissions.

I order a shop manual today as well. My biggest problem other than lack of knowledge is I have no garage, and am working on the ground. Hard to see some of this stuff. 🤷‍♂️
 

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MonteLS_84

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Jul 28, 2021
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Update:

I was fortunate enough to have someone I know come over and take a look at the car. He's owned a few chevys, and is far more knowledgeable then me. What I thought was a faulty carb. issue may yet be a timing issue. He claimed that timing and vacuum issues could be causing the carb. secondaries to not open properly/regularly.

Unfortunately, I'm at his mercy but he said he will come by another time and adjust the carb., plug/connect the vacuum lines/holes, and set the timing. He said it will run a lot better and have more power. I hope he's right. 🤞😂

I'm still not sure (and confused) on the potential transmission issues (lock up, or no lock up).
 

CopperNick

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So I dug out my copy of the Haynes GM transmission overhaul manual and thumbed over to the I.D. page. The THM350 pan does use a 13 bolt pattern and, if looking at it, from underneath or from below , the back and side edges on the driver's side meet at an angle, not at 90 degrees. Otherwise the pan is squarish shaped. AT this point I am almost tempted to roll that 350 I have over enough to do an eyeball of its pan, just to see WTF for myself.

But that brings me back to the question of whether or not that 350 also possesses a plug-in in for the third gear lock up or not. When you were doing the chassis crawl, did you happen to notice the presence of a vacuum line attached to a small canister near the back of the t-mission on the passenger's side? If there, it would be a steel tube with a short length of hose between it and the nipple on the canister. On the driver's side just to the right of the gear selector lever and bit more towards the back, was there a square plastic female plug into which a matching male had been connected?

No plug in and the vacuum line means that you have the common version of the 350 and that there ought to be a port or fitting on the manifold with a short length of rubber vacuum hose attached to it that feeds constant vacuum to the t-mission vacuum line. As you have discovered on your own, 84 seems to have been something of a transition year for transmissions. The factory probably chose to use up all the 350 units they had on hand and then move to the TH200R4, hence the very small number of builds that occurred that got the 4-spd. It is that, rare for your year, 4-spd that has the lockup built into it and where all the fun begins.

And, just for the sake of my own fund of knowledge here, is the distributor a small body unit or an HEI large body? The small body versions tend not to possess a vacuum advance canister attached to their bases.

As a thought here, when you buddy does come over to do the various lines and hoses, take notes and pictures of what went where. Even with a manual that is year specific, it doesn't hurt to take additional pictures. Reality and the manual often have tendency to part ways concerning what was supposed to be there and what actually did get put there. Plus manuals often assume experience and factory training on the part of the reader. The shop and dealer wrenches get to go to school on a regular basis all their lives to learn and work on the upgrades. We, as frequently, get to learn how it all works by breaking it and then having to figure out how to fix the mess!



Nick
 

CopperNick

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Feb 20, 2018
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Bother, that damn angle could just as easily be on the passenger side, but it is there.....Meh.
 

ELCAM

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Jun 19, 2021
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Page one last post, the pic of the quqdrajet you can see the vacuum line to the transmission.

350c lock up connector, kind of hard to see since the transmission is so grubby. Does your transmission have that connector?
350c.jpg
 
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MonteLS_84

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Jul 28, 2021
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Page one last post, the pic of the quqdrajet you can see the vacuum line to the transmission.

350c lock up connector, kind of hard to see since the transmission is so grubby. Does your transmission have that connector?
View attachment 181277
I'm not sure what this is but this is the approximate location, and appears to be some sort of electrical wire.
 

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MonteLS_84

Apprentice
Jul 28, 2021
63
10
8
So I dug out my copy of the Haynes GM transmission overhaul manual and thumbed over to the I.D. page. The THM350 pan does use a 13 bolt pattern and, if looking at it, from underneath or from below , the back and side edges on the driver's side meet at an angle, not at 90 degrees. Otherwise the pan is squarish shaped. AT this point I am almost tempted to roll that 350 I have over enough to do an eyeball of its pan, just to see WTF for myself.

But that brings me back to the question of whether or not that 350 also possesses a plug-in in for the third gear lock up or not. When you were doing the chassis crawl, did you happen to notice the presence of a vacuum line attached to a small canister near the back of the t-mission on the passenger's side? If there, it would be a steel tube with a short length of hose between it and the nipple on the canister. On the driver's side just to the right of the gear selector lever and bit more towards the back, was there a square plastic female plug into which a matching male had been connected?

No plug in and the vacuum line means that you have the common version of the 350 and that there ought to be a port or fitting on the manifold with a short length of rubber vacuum hose attached to it that feeds constant vacuum to the t-mission vacuum line. As you have discovered on your own, 84 seems to have been something of a transition year for transmissions. The factory probably chose to use up all the 350 units they had on hand and then move to the TH200R4, hence the very small number of builds that occurred that got the 4-spd. It is that, rare for your year, 4-spd that has the lockup built into it and where all the fun begins.

And, just for the sake of my own fund of knowledge here, is the distributor a small body unit or an HEI large body? The small body versions tend not to possess a vacuum advance canister attached to their bases.

As a thought here, when you buddy does come over to do the various lines and hoses, take notes and pictures of what went where. Even with a manual that is year specific, it doesn't hurt to take additional pictures. Reality and the manual often have tendency to part ways concerning what was supposed to be there and what actually did get put there. Plus manuals often assume experience and factory training on the part of the reader. The shop and dealer wrenches get to go to school on a regular basis all their lives to learn and work on the upgrades. We, as frequently, get to learn how it all works by breaking it and then having to figure out how to fix the mess!



Nick
Is this the canister you speak of? Also attached a photo of distributor.

By the way, what is the difference if I have the lock up or non lock up trans.?
 

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