Oddity - swap FWD 3.0/3.8/3300/3800/etc Buick V6 into Gbody?

[King_V]

This is something that had occurred to me on and off throughout the years.

I'm sure there MUST be gotchas - but I'm wondering how easy it would be to swap a FRONT drive 3.0/3.8 Buick V6 engine, or one of the later 3800/3800 Series II/3800 Series III engines into a G-body, ideally one that originally came with a 3.8 RWD Buick V6.

I am ALMOST certain that the trans bellhousing bolt pattern is the 60-degree-front-drive form for all of those (heard some rumor that the 3.0/3.8 FWD engines might have the 90-degree pattern, but that doesn't sound right to me).

Would it mount up with any sort of combinations of factory motor/frame mounts, or will something have to be custom made?

I'm sure I can't be the ONLY person who has ever pondered this insanity - has anyone ever looked into it or done it? Admittedly I'd wondered about doing this with a SEFI NA 3.8 V6 (say 1986-1988 VIN 3 engine from a Delta 88, LeSabre, Century, or Ciera).

Thoughts?

 

[clean8485]

Re: Oddity - swap FWD 3.0/3.8/3300/3800/etc Buick V6 into Gb

I know that GM did install the 3800 SFI V6 in the late '90s F body (Camaro & Firebird), as a rear wheel drive application. Perhaps some of those parts could be used for a swap.

 

[mac61891]

Re: Oddity - swap FWD 3.0/3.8/3300/3800/etc Buick V6 into Gb

The bellhousings are different between the RWD 3.8 and the FWD 3.8. The FWD era engines have the GM Metric Bellhousing. The camaro and firebird applications also used the metric pattern. I believe that the swap would be as straight forward as any other that has been done on these cars, but the engines are different.

 

[454cutlass]

Re: Oddity - swap FWD 3.0/3.8/3300/3800/etc Buick V6 into Gb

If it could work I would put a 97 and up 3800 with a gen v supercharger. You could get around 400 to the wheels. Friend of mine had a daily driver 98 regal GS with that set up with supporting mods. 399hp to the wheels on a fwd was not fun to drive

 

[81cutlass]

Re: Oddity - swap FWD 3.0/3.8/3300/3800/etc Buick V6 into Gb

95+ F bodies have the 60degree bellhousing and the intake the correct way.

FWD motors wont work straight into one because the FWD intakes sit over the bellhousing so it will sit the wrong way. Easiest is to get a F body setup and put it in. Accessories for a FWD and RWD swap right over. Alternator and bracket are the same anyways. Just change PS and AC pump along with the oil filter adapter. Plus with the F body setup you already get all that and a wiring harness.

Did an supercharged 3800 swap into my 4th gen. It would be great in a G body but its reserved for a BOP H body.

The 97+ swap makes the most sense since they are OBD2 so you can run HPtuners or whatever and acutually tune it.

 

[King_V]

Re: Oddity - swap FWD 3.0/3.8/3300/3800/etc Buick V6 into Gb

Are the motor mount locations pretty much the same on all these motors?

That is, let's say you had an F-body from the 90s that came factory with a 3800.... if that motor were gone, would any of the 3.0 FWD, 3.8 FWD, 3300, and 3800 engines from the mid-80s onward be able to be put in (not counting intake issues) just by using the motor mounts that would normally be used on the F-body's original 3800?

Wish I had access to see what the blocks looked like. It's probably something I'd never get around to doing, but I still like the idea - I really always believed that the naturally aspirated SEFI V6 (VIN 3 engine) should've been offered in G body cars in place of the carbureted 3.8. Eh, but that's a rant I went into in another thread anyway...

 

[clean8485]

Re: Oddity - swap FWD 3.0/3.8/3300/3800/etc Buick V6 into Gb

I understand what you're saying about installing the N/A SFI 3800 V6 into the G body. It would have been a naturally good choice. Unfortunately, the SFI 3800 engine was just starting to come into its own at the time that G body production was about to be discontinued. Had G body production lasted for another 2-3 years, we might have seen a factory offering like that. Having said that, if G body production lasted another 2-3 years, we might have seen the small block V8 with either TBI or TPI as a factory offering (now that would have been cool IMO).
The best version of the N/A SFI 3800 IMO, was the code L engine of the early '90s. By then, GM had upgraded the engine with a balance shaft, which really smoothed out the idle, and they were still using the metal intake manifold, which wasn't prone to the problems of melting around the EGR port, like the plastic upper intake manifold of the later series 2 3800s were. I know that the code L engines were only rated around 170HP, but they ran great, had good torque and power, were as smooth as glass, and got good fuel economy. I had a '94 Lumina APV with the code L 3800, and I wish I still had it.
I think it would be interesting to see someone attempt a supercharged 3800/5 speed swap in a G body. Depending on the year and series of those engines, I believe they were rated at anywhere from 210-240HP, and could probably be tweaked to put out more than that. Weight distribution in a combination like that should be pretty good, and while it might not be a fire-breathing monster, it would probably handle and perform pretty well, while returning decent fuel economy. Having said that, with the popularity of current small block and LS engine swaps, the chances of ever seeing something like that are probably pretty slim.
It would be interesting to compare the engine block mounting points on a newer 3800 SFI engine to the older carbed 3.8 V6, or to the mounting points for the GN SFI 3.8 V6, to see if they're the same. If so, you'd probably have the beginnings of an interesting engine swap.
Just thinking out loud.

 

[joesregalproject]

Re: Oddity - swap FWD 3.0/3.8/3300/3800/etc Buick V6 into Gb

I've always dreamed of doing this. Either a 3.8 3800 Series II out of a FWD LeSabre, or better yet, a supercharged version of the 3.8 out of a 95-98 Riviera. Damn would that be cool!

 

[86 Grand prix]

Re: Oddity - swap FWD 3.0/3.8/3300/3800/etc Buick V6 into Gb

There are several Grand Prix GTP and Bonneville SSEI cars in the yards around here with the superchargers. It turns my head every time I see one.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Re: Oddity - swap FWD 3.0/3.8/3300/3800/etc Buick V6 into Gb

Are the motor mount locations pretty much the same on all these motors?

That is, let's say you had an F-body from the 90s that came factory with a 3800.... if that motor were gone, would any of the 3.0 FWD, 3.8 FWD, 3300, and 3800 engines from the mid-80s onward be able to be put in (not counting intake issues) just by using the motor mounts that would normally be used on the F-body's original 3800?

Wish I had access to see what the blocks looked like. It's probably something I'd never get around to doing, but I still like the idea - I really always believed that the naturally aspirated SEFI V6 (VIN 3 engine) should've been offered in G body cars in place of the carbureted 3.8. Eh, but that's a rant I went into in another thread anyway...

It is not so much the carburetor, but the poor heads, low CR, lame camshaft, and the rear gears holding the 3.8 back. Being a 90 degree V6 doesn't help either. From my understanding, the 3800 is a near complete redesign of the older 3.8s and that not much interchanges.