Olds cam question

[kustomkyle]

I've been trying to find a factory style replacement cam for the later 442/VIN 9/H.O. roller 307 Oldsmobile. The one I have been leaning towards is from Melling. The only problem is, is that there seems to be conflicting information.

On the AutoZone website, I searched for the cam for a 1986 Cutlass with a "VIN 9" engine. The cam it lists is the Melling MTO-1. It's specs are as follows (from the Melling website):

Specs @ 0.50 Cam Lift
Opens Closes Duration
SAE Specs@
(0.06/Rocker Arm Ratio) Cam Lift
Opens Closes Duration
Cam
Lift
Gross
Valve Lift
Center
Line C/L
Rocker
Arm Ratio
Valve Lash
Clearance

INT. 5o ATC 29o ABC 204 28o BTC 72o ABC 280 .280 .448 107 HYD.
EXH. 44o BBC 10o BTC 214 77o BBC 33o ATC 290 .295 .472 117 HYD.

The problem is that I've searched other vendors and they list it as a flat tappet camshaft. Also, the "earlier" cam on AutoZone is listed as the same one.

Which information is wrong, or does it matter if the cam goes with a specific type of lifters (I'm pretty sure they do, but????)?

 

[joe_padavano]

I've been trying to find a factory style replacement cam for the later 442/VIN 9/H.O. roller 307 Oldsmobile. The one I have been leaning towards is from Melling. The only problem is, is that there seems to be conflicting information.

On the AutoZone website, I searched for the cam for a 1986 Cutlass with a "VIN 9" engine. The cam it lists is the Melling MTO-1. It's specs are as follows (from the Melling website):

Specs @ 0.50 Cam Lift
Opens Closes Duration
SAE Specs@
(0.06/Rocker Arm Ratio) Cam Lift
Opens Closes Duration
Cam
Lift
Gross
Valve Lift
Center
Line C/L
Rocker
Arm Ratio
Valve Lash
Clearance

INT. 5o ATC 29o ABC 204 28o BTC 72o ABC 280 .280 .448 107 HYD.
EXH. 44o BBC 10o BTC 214 77o BBC 33o ATC 290 .295 .472 117 HYD.

The problem is that I've searched other vendors and they list it as a flat tappet camshaft. Also, the "earlier" cam on AutoZone is listed as the same one.

Which information is wrong, or does it matter if the cam goes with a specific type of lifters (I'm pretty sure they do, but????)?

If the motor has 7A heads, it's a roller cam motor, whether it is a VIN Y or VIN 9, doesn't matter. The roller cam motors use 0.921" diameter lifters. The flat tappet motors use 0.842" diameter lifters. It matters.

 

[DrRansom442]

definately listen to Joe here ... I beleive 86 was a cross-over and roller cam or not could go eitherway. I can not swear to it (and it's long gone now) but I think my 86 was a non-roller cam. As for questionible auto part store's part listings (especially at the Twilight Zone) ... don't get me started ... and I worked in two different franchises (Car Quest and Western Auto/Parts America). Auto Zone is a usually a last option stop for me for anything other than fluids .... I will gladly pay more for a higher quality part ... especially if I get the right one on the first trip.

 

[kustomkyle]

Yes, I know that my engine is a roller motor. It is a VIN Y in a 1986 Regal Limited. To be honest, I know pretty much nothing about engines other than what I have read online or in magazines. I'm trying to use factory style parts because of that reason. The only thing I know about the roller lifters is that they have a "roller" on them.

So, I guess the cam won't work? I reread the Melling information PDF and it lists the MTO-1 for all VIN 9 engines, but the lifters are obviously different for the earlier ones. Clevite on the other hand shows that there is a different cam for the 4 types of 307's. I can't find anyone who sells Clevite cams though. I probably sound like an idiot but I am trying to learn.

 

[DrRansom442]

Yes, I know that my engine is a roller motor. It is a VIN Y in a 1986 Regal Limited. To be honest, I know pretty much nothing about engines other than what I have read online or in magazines. I'm trying to use factory style parts because of that reason. The only thing I know about the roller lifters is that they have a "roller" on them.

So, I guess the cam won't work? I reread the Melling information PDF and it lists the MTO-1 for all VIN 9 engines, but the lifters are obviously different for the earlier ones. Clevite on the other hand shows that there is a different cam for the 4 types of 307's. I probably sound like an idiot but I am trying to learn.

Not an idiot at all. You had enough sense to ask. 4 listings are likely Y non-roller, Y roller, 9 Non-roller and 9 roller. Never put too much stock in an auto parts store's books and even less faith in the computer listings ... if something sounds incomplete or wrong. It probably is. Good countermen are getting rare these days. Most just read the computer screen, question nothing and have no idea what sub-notes are (much less read them). I hope this guides you in the right direction. Perhaps post exactly what you are looking for ... some of these guys scare with their knowledge ... and I do personally have an impressive set of factory GM parts manuals. Including complete listing of 82-88 G body cars. GM part numbers for everything down to nuts, bolts, and screws.

BTW. Summit should have a complete line of Clevite ... I got bearings from them.

 

[joe_padavano]

I beleive 86 was a cross-over and roller cam or not could go eitherway. I can not swear to it (and it's long gone now) but I think my 86 was a non-roller cam.

I believe you are correct. I'm not a VIN 9 expert (all my 307s are VIN Y) but I do know that the VIN Y motors went to the roller cam in 1986. I recall that the VIN 9 motors changed later, possibly mid year or possibly later than that.

 

[kustomkyle]

It looks like the only auto parts store that sells Clevite stuff is Car Quest. There was one around here but I don't think it is still in business. Summit didn't have anything, except Lunati, etc.

The Clevite part number for the 1986-1990 VIN 9 camshaft is 229-2169

I searched another website called "Northern Auto Parts" but it gave me the VIN Y part number as the result for a search for a 1987 Cutlass with a VIN 9 307. So I searched using the 229-2169 number and got a hit for a camshaft, but it is by "Dana Engine Controls" (?). I can't find any information on that camshaft. Maybe it is the same as the Clevite one? I didn't think finding a factory replacement cam would be so hard. I would try a GM dealer but I doubt they would have one around, and I don't know the part number. I'd go with an aftermarket one but they are listed by their specifications, none match the factory numbers. I don't know what I'm doing there and don't want to end up with a lopey racing cam.

 

[DrRansom442]

If you can wait till the weekend, I can consult my OEM parts manual, but it's with my car right now some 40 miles from home

 

[kustomkyle]

You don't have to out of your way. I'm not in any hurry. I don't plan on getting any engine work done for a while. I actually bought a book similar to that (Mitchell body shop estimating book). However, the one I got didn't include the G-body stuff. The guy I bought it from has more that are older, and I'm waiting to hear from him if they have G-body stuff in any of them. I'll look for the book you have to. How much do they usually go for?

 

[DrRansom442]

You don't have to out of your way. I'm not in any hurry. I don't plan on getting any engine work done for a while. I actually bought a book similar to that (Mitchell body shop estimating book). However, the one I got didn't include the G-body stuff. The guy I bought it from has more that are older, and I'm waiting to hear from him if they have G-body stuff in any of them. I'll look for the book you have to. How much do they usually go for?

It was three HUGE volumes. Has ever GM part number, exploded views et cetera ... I believe I bought it still wrapped in celophane for $130.00. Seen the same book on CD on Ebay, but sorry I am probably nabbing that one too