Performance 307 build!!

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Whatever the little squabbles are, keep this thread alive and moving please!

There are plenty of 5 liter engines making good horsepower out there. We need to find the keys to unlock the potential.

I love reading all of this!
 
I gained a small amount of respect for the 5.0L engine when I ripped it out the camino and put it into my 80 Crewcab. Sure my 1/4 mile time aint nothing to brag about but it gets 18mpg and its hella reliable.
 
80Maliboo said:
I take it you are young. Here is some advice regarding your situation, it could save you a lot of time and money. You have a passion for the first v8 car you've owned and want to set the world on fire with it. Gotcha, we've all been there. Unfortunately you have jumped into a relitively heavy smogger car. That means its going to take a lot of time, skill, and/or money to accomplish anything near what you are immagining. Also, you have an oldsmoblie engine. They arent exactly renowned for their performance qualities in decades since the 50's. There is next to no aftermarket for them which means what is available is overpriced and will net a substancially decreased power potential over say sbc parts. Alternitively you could work with matching factory parts to get a better performing engine. While admarable you wont prove a point to anyone but yourself and your wallet. This style of engine building has been in existance since the 30s, its also one of the worst. Mix and matching parts has rarely if ever netted the best option for any engine, and if it has it has been done purely by coincidence. If you want to prove a point, prove a point to yourself and accept advice of people who have been arround the block a few times and ditch the olds engine. I have not heard of someone building an olds engine since the 70s, and thats for a reason. Best of luck to you whatever path you take (which Im pritty certain I know which path you will chose already).

guessing you haven't gotten out much SINCE the 1970s ... so much is known about Oldsmobiles now. It's the kind of thinking that "you have two engine choices (Ford and Chevy)" that is dated ... Oldsmobiles are hip in a sea of funny orange colorred mouse motors.
 
i found this on line, maybe itll help:
307 Chevy Engine Build - Danger Mouse - And Now for Something Completely Different
Taking a mundane 307 and turing it into a respectable performer
By Rob Fortier


As you've undoubtedly noticed, our Danger Mouse series has morphed from the constant reworking of the same basic engine to a series of performance-based builds on a variety of
different engines. Many of these we're happy to say have or will soon find homes in a myriad of project cars, allowing them to enjoy the open road rather than just a thrashing
on the dyno. So, in the name of diversity, this month's subject will be-believe it or not-Chevy's much maligned 307.

Chevrolet hit a home run when they designed the then revolutionary OHV small-block over half a century ago. But, were all the variations admirable pieces of mechanical art? No,
not exactly. While all different configurations of the V-8 basically share the same concept, there were a few black sheep among the flock throughout the years-enter the
"economical" engines.

Horsepower may have been the name of the game in the early- to mid-'60s, but by the end of the Flower Power era, economy started to enter the picture. Paling in comparison
to the weak 262ci (110hp) engine that was introduced later in 1975, the 307, as well as the subsequent 305, was developed in response to increasing federal regulations and
a continual consumer demand for better fuel economy. This resulted in a small-journal small-block with a 3.875-inch bore (same as the 283) and 3.250-inch stroke (same as the
327) compared to the 350's bore of 4.000 and 3.480 stroke. The cylinder heads were primarily the same small-valve type, only with a smaller quench area, which was again done
for emission's sake.

While it may be a machismo thing for rodders to avoid the "three-oh's," many smaller trucks and hot rods would actually benefit from the non-350s. Sure, there is a definite
loss of performance experienced from these engines, but not everyone needs 400-plus horsepower. In response to the extremely high price of gasoline these days, we wanted to
come up with an engine that offered good all-around performance yet didn't empty the wallet every other day at the pumps. Knowing all of the above, as well as the fact that
most non-350s are almost as plentiful as V-6s, we decided to see what we could do with a stock 307 and a tight budget.



Running and nearly complete, we picked up this '68 307 for next to nothing.
As it turned out, another magazine project vehicle had just surrendered its old '68 307, which still had the Tonawanda stickers on the valve covers. It didn't smoke, used very
little oil, had served its previous vehicles well, and only set us back $250-just what we were looking for! From there, we sat down and mapped out what we thought would be the
most logical game plan for the future of the engine without having to touch anything in the short-block (unless we absolutely had to). Edelbrock E-Tec 170 cylinder heads, a
Performer intake manifold with a Performer 600 carb, MSD Pro Billet HEI, and a complete COMP Cams kit that included a CS X4 262H-11 hydraulic cam and Magnum roller-tip rockers
seemed to fill the bill perfectly-and didn't drain our entire account.

To perform our test, we hit up John Beck at Pro Machine and Eric Weinrich at Dyno-Motive, both in Anaheim, California. Beck would do the wrenching, while Weinrich would verify
the results. With everything in our possession-including pulleys, a water pump, a fuel pump, a flexplate, etc. on the engine-we scheduled a day with Beck and Weinrich to see
if we could turn the "red-headed stepchild" into an A+ student.

The 307 was placed on Weinrich's dyno with a stock QuadraJet, the vintage Edelbrock intake it came with, and points ignition-internally, it was anyone's guess on the contents,
let alone the condition of them. As you could imagine, there was some slight cringing going on during those first pulls. But, lo and behold, the little guy put out some very
impressive numbers on the baselines, which got us to wondering more about the internals. For a 37-year-old engine, a peak of 230hp at 5,000 rpm and 278 lb-ft torque at 4,000
rpm are quite impressive. What made those numbers even more impressive was the fact that after we had removed the stock cylinder heads, we finally learned the truth about the
307's internal components-stock bore with the same pistons GM installed in 1968! Somewhere along the line, a bit hotter cam had been installed, but other than that, it was as
stock as you're going to find for an engine of this vintage. Now we wanted to see how strong the 307 would be with a few new goodies.

A couple hours were spent installing the COMP cam and lifters; bolting on the new Vortec-style Edelbrock heads; dropping in new stock-length COMP pushrods capped with Magnum
rockers; installing the Performer Vortec-style intake and electric-choke carb; and finally dropping the MSD ready-to-run Pro Billet distributor in the hole. A new Edelbrock
fuel pump was also used, but since it was still in good condition, we reused the older Edelbrock aluminum short water pump. A set of Champion plugs were gapped (0.045) and
screwed in the new heads, the MSD wires run, timing set at 39 degrees, and the miscellaneous parts put on before Weinrich and Beck reconnected the 307 to the dyno. If there
were cringing expressions before, the looks on our faces were now of eager anticipation.

The anticipation would have to wait 20 minutes or so, as Weinrich idled the engine at or above 3,000 rpm to properly break in the new cam. When the time came and the throttle
was finally hammered, the little engine that could, did! For our collaborative efforts-not to mention the efforts of the new parts-the 307 put out a very respectable 315hp at
5,200 rpm and 330 lb-ft torque at 3,800 rpm. Our hopes of a 100hp gain fell short, but then that was a guess based on the lower baseline we had originally anticipated. For a
stock-bore 307 with a mild 262/270 cam, aluminum 170cc heads, electronic ignition, and a strong 600-cfm carburetor, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

For a lighter vehicle, this is a perfect engine to stick under the hood. You're going to get plenty of power, have more than enough torque to move the weight, and just as
importantly, you're not going to spend a fortune at the pump. If you're in the market for an engine for a new project (or an existing one) and want to keep things relatively
simple, flip open the classifieds and start calling on some of those 307s (or 305s) you always see listed for almost nothing. Do what we did and you'll be thanking yourself
for years to come.


To bump those numbers into the 300s, we had to do some aftermarket shopping.
While we were at it, we also took advantage of Edelbrock's new proprietary gasket kits.
You know that feeling you get when you first drive a newly purchased used car home? That's how we felt after we strapped our 307 to Dyno-Motive's engine dyno for a series of
baseline tests.

Fortunately, the seller of the engine was honest with his description of our $250 engine.
We were relieved that the 307 didn't decide to let go while it was on the dyno...but we still were curious about its contents.
Once the stock cylinder heads were peeled off, we found that the engine had been taken very good care of.

While the cylinders showed that this engine had never been victim to a rebuild.
After thoroughly cleaning all the gasket surfaces and removing the old timing chain (which had excess slop), Beck lubed up the new COMP Cams 252/270 (at 0.006 lift) cam.
Even though it's not totally necessary, Jon went the "PC" route and properly dialed in the cam timing.

After dousing lifter bores with a quart of Valvoline VR1 20W-50, the new COMP Cams hydraulic lifters were dropped in place.
Edelbrock makes using their cylinder heads even better by now offering their own head gaskets as well as head bolt kits.
The E-Tec 170 heads feature much larger valves (1.94 intake/1.55 exhaust), as well as 64cc chambers for 9.5:1 compression and 170cc intake chambers. An E-Tec 200 version is
also available.

While there are numerous aftermarket cylinder head manufacturers out there, Edelbrock is one of only a few offering complete heads that you can literally bolt on straight out
of the box and go, which is exactly what we did.
After the stock-length COMP Cams pushrods were dropped in, the Magnum roller-tip rocker arms on the rocker studs (already installed with guideplates by Edelbrock).

Beck wrapped up the valve-train assembly with the rocker/valve adjustment.
With the engine filled with more 20W-50, Beck primed the pump with Weinrich's "modified" antique hand drill.
Again using Edelbrock's gaskets, but with clear RTV silicone on the front and rear, the Performer Vortec manifold was installed.

Following in the tradition of "straight out of the box," the new MSD Pro Billet HEI and the Edelbrock Performer 600 carb were put on the engine as-is.
Beck and Weinrich worked together to wrap up our 4-hour day at the dyno.
When all was said and done, the little engine that could managed to consistently squeeze out 315 hp at 5,200 rpm and 330 lb-ft torque at 3,800 rpm.
 
that proves that a small displacement, with odd bore/stroke combo can make power...

But that is still a small block chevy and not an Olds 307. There are some very different engineering hurdles to overcome to make it get out and hustle, whereas a small block Chevy has the advantage of such a massive aftermarket that pretty much anything can be bought to remedy any situation. The 307 chevy is actually a 283 block with a 327 small journal crank in it. Anybody who has followed chevy engines knows that the 283 was really loved until the 350 came along. The point of the 307 chevy not being loved is, however, the same argument that the Olds 307 uses. Both are considered "smogger junk" but such is not the case with either engine.

The 307 does have a somewhat weaker "windowed" main web design, but that is easily remedied with a block girdle. After that, you need only to match the pistons, heads, cam, intake, exhaust, etc... to build your combo. It CAN be done, and it should be done.

I hope it gets done by the guy doing this thread!
 
1968 307 is a horse of another breed. That's an SBC, this is about the 1980s SBO 307s. Nothing applies.
 
KrisW said:
that proves that a small displacement, with odd bore/stroke combo can make power...

But that is still a small block chevy and not an Olds 307. There are some very different engineering hurdles to overcome to make it get out and hustle, whereas a small block Chevy has the advantage of such a massive aftermarket that pretty much anything can be bought to remedy any situation. The 307 chevy is actually a 283 block with a 327 small journal crank in it. Anybody who has followed chevy engines knows that the 283 was really loved until the 350 came along. The point of the 307 chevy not being loved is, however, the same argument that the Olds 307 uses. Both are considered "smogger junk" but such is not the case with either engine.

The 307 does have a somewhat weaker "windowed" main web design, but that is easily remedied with a block girdle. After that, you need only to match the pistons, heads, cam, intake, exhaust, etc... to build your combo. It CAN be done, and it should be done.

I hope it gets done by the guy doing this thread!

girdles should only be needed if you are seeing RPMs north of 5500 rpms ... Olds are known to make low-end ... not power in the upper RPMs. So really girdles should be optional on a street car (atleast I hope to never prove that wrong with my 78 block)
 
i thought what i posted would give some general ideas. i knew that the artical was about a sbc not a sbo, but i thought it would "inspire" some of us. :lol:
 
DrRansom442 said:
girdles should only be needed if you are seeing RPMs north of 5500 rpms ... Olds are known to make low-end ... not power in the upper RPMs. So really girdles should be optional on a street car (at least I hope to never prove that wrong with my 78 block)

Girdles can be needed at any rpm range if you are constantly abusing your engine. All 403 variants (except some rare 1976 blocks) and most Olds engine blocks from 1981-on have windowed webs. SUSTAINED high rpm use or just beating the crap out of your V8 around town can crack the block in the windowed area. This includes repeated jackrabbit starts, burnouts, stop light to stop light competition, and of course drag racing. Plenty of guys drag race and shift gears to avoid going over 6000. They still crack light bottom blocks. It just happens.

My second point is that if you want to make real power with a low displacement engine, you are going to be upping your power band. When I think of a HOT street engine, I am thinking 400+ HP. On a 307, that means hitting just north of 6 grand I am sure. That is why I recommend the girdle, and I know that Mondello and others sell them.

Cheap insurance, I think.
 
KrisW said:
DrRansom442 said:
girdles should only be needed if you are seeing RPMs north of 5500 rpms ... Olds are known to make low-end ... not power in the upper RPMs. So really girdles should be optional on a street car (at least I hope to never prove that wrong with my 78 block)

Girdles can be needed at any rpm range if you are constantly abusing your engine. All 403 variants (except some rare 1976 blocks) and most Olds engine blocks from 1981-on have windowed webs. SUSTAINED high rpm use or just beating the crap out of your V8 around town can crack the block in the windowed area. This includes repeated jackrabbit starts, burnouts, stop light to stop light competition, and of course drag racing. Plenty of guys drag race and shift gears to avoid going over 6000. They still crack light bottom blocks. It just happens.

My second point is that if you want to make real power with a low displacement engine, you are going to be upping your power band. When I think of a HOT street engine, I am thinking 400+ HP. On a 307, that means hitting just north of 6 grand I am sure. That is why I recommend the girdle, and I know that Mondello and others sell them.

Cheap insurance, I think.
windowed mains came earlier than 81 ... all gas blocks starting in 77 had windows (as does my ungirdled 350). As for 403s ... I believe there is a standing reward for $10,000.00 for proof of Mondildo's SWM 403 claims ..... As I recall that article where Mondello was quoting cast numbers was from a 1987 issue of Hot Rod .... and no one has found one!
400 hp, yeah you are probably spinning right at a good 6 grand but again .... it's just not LIKELY with a 307. Not without some serious cheese and research. The engine everyone references is from the 2008 Engine Masters Challenge. Robinson Analytical - their 307 Oldsmobile (316 ci) Started with a stock late-model block, an OEM Olds forged crank, Eagle rods, Ross pistons, and a COMP cams cam (.633-/.592-inch lift, 235/239-at-.050). ported 5A heads, an Edelbrock Performer intake, and Edelbrock 800-cfm Thunder AVS carb. = 434.8 hp@5,900rpm. These guys were hardly first timers.
 
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