BUILD THREAD Project Olds Cool (Recognition!!)

Rktpwrd

Builder of Cool Shjt
Supporting Member
Feb 2, 2015
4,155
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Not only is your work outstanding, but you explain it very eloquently as well. Donovan you would have made a great teacher.

Thanks Tony.
I sometimes feel like I struggle with trying to explain different concepts or methods when writing the updates, or replying to questions.
A simple comment like yours makes me feel less unsure about how I try and convey them to you guys.
Thanks.
 
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Tony1968

Royal Smart Person
Supporting Member
Jul 1, 2018
2,313
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NW Indiana
Thanks Tony.
I sometimes feel like I struggle with trying to explain different concepts or methods when writing the updates, or replying to questions.
A simple comment like yours makes me feel less unsure about how I try and convey them to you guys.
Thanks.
You are very welcome! I don't think you can convey your methods any better. I still need to re read them and decipher for myself because it's all new to me. Until I do it for myself, and fail, then try again, I will still be unsure and question everything. I guess that's just my learning process....
 
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69hurstolds

Geezer
Supporting Member
Jan 2, 2006
8,088
17,308
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Interesting bit of information right there.
That totally explains a lot of the questionable quality and work I’ve come across along the way! On the upside of that however, I can rest easy knowing I’ve either fixed or improved upon almost all the deficiencies.
IMO, if it managed to last 40 years with questionable build quality, it should have no problem lasting another 40 this time around.
🤞🏻
Exactly. OTOH, when people do whine about the build quality- if GM went to your extremes to get everything aligned perfectly and panels smoothed perfectly, etc., it would take a month to build a car. And cost $420,000. For a 305 V8. Bean counters made them make compromises.
 
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motorheadmike

Geezer
Nov 18, 2009
8,976
27,522
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Saskatchewan, Truckistan
Interesting bit of information right there.
That totally explains a lot of the questionable quality and work I’ve come across along the way! On the upside of that however, I can rest easy knowing I’ve either fixed or improved upon almost all the deficiencies.
IMO, if it managed to last 40 years with questionable build quality, it should have no problem lasting another 40 this time around.
🤞🏻

Finding (and fixing) the BS built into these cars is a lot like learning about fire the hard way.

 
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clean8485

Comic Book Super Hero
Dec 18, 2005
2,860
2,136
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Ontario, Canada
Don't get all bent out of shape on the quality of your build. It's 1000X better than Ste. Therese's quality when new. And once it's fully painted, you won't notice those gaps. You may, but nobody else will.

Fun Fact: Did you know that the Ste. Therese assembly plant ALMOST was shut down due to high absenteeism and poor quality builds back in the early 80s?? YASSSSSSS. They finally scraped it to the ground after the 3rd gen F-body run 2002 model year was finished.
Part of the reason that GM tore down that facility, is because the Canadian government offered them financial assistance to build Camaros and Firebirds at the Ste. Therese plant, in order to keep some jobs in Canada. It was stipulated in the agreement though, that GM was to build the F body cars at that plant, and nowhere else, in order to get the financial help. When production of the 4th generation Camaros and Firebirds ended after the 2002 model year, the Ste Therese plant ended up sitting idle for a few years, then GM tore it down, and I believe (not sure about this), that they sold the property. Since the plant didn't exist anymore, and they didn't own that property, that got them out of their agreement with the Canadian government, to only build Camaros in Canada. When GM revived the Camaro in 2010, they were built in Oshawa for a few years, but eventually, Camaro production was shifted to the States. Another example of GM taking the money, and then running.
 
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mr evil

Moderator
Moderator
Aug 4, 2009
857
544
93
Sooke, BC, Canada
I hope the personal stuff gets sorted D. I know life can be a challenge at the best of times, just know we're all pulling for you. Of course if there's anything I can do, just ask (y)
 
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mclellan83

Comic Book Super Hero
Jun 27, 2017
4,204
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Pgh, PA
Hope it all gets better soon than later buddy
 
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Texas82GP

Just-a-worm
Apr 3, 2015
7,981
18,676
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Spring, Texas
Sorry for the late reply Jared. My life has been pretty upside down lately, and not in a good way. Lots of things happening in my personal life, it’s been a difficult time.

This is not one of those “easy to answer” or cut and dried questions. As you’ve already pointed out, there’s two schools of thought when it comes to painting a car. Specifically, restorations. There’s really no right or wrong answer to it, both ways are perfectly acceptable. There are merits to each, and considerations to be taken into account though.

The painter that shot Sean’s Camaro likely wanted to do it completely disassembled, because a) it’s easier to get full coverage everywhere, and b), there’s really little to no masking to be done, and therefore no concerns of mask lines.

However:

He also wasn’t going to be the one tasked with reassembling the car with fresh paint. And as we all know, that’s no easy feat. However (part II), Sean’s Camaro (I’m assuming) was also a solid, non metallic color. (Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here). Metallic colors can sometimes be challenging to spray even for the most experienced painters. Air pressure, viscosity, distance from the panel, atmospheric conditions, and gun setup all come into play with laying down a proper metallic paint job.

If I were to repaint Olds Cool back to its original solid single color, I would have absolutely no qualms about spraying all the panels off the car, other than having to deal with the stress of reassembly and alignment afterwards. Hell, it would save me a ton of time and money on masking materials, and lord only knows I don’t need any excuses to avoid masking.

But being that Olds Cool’s planned paint scheme includes the high metallic charcoal grey upper half, it’s important to have all the panels on, aligned, and able to be sprayed at the same time.
And distance.
And with all the other factors I listed above.

If I attempted to spray them all off the car and separately, I’d run the risk of the metallics not laying down the same from panel to panel. And it would probably be a pretty noticeable difference.

So that’s my one real justification for shooting the car fully assembled. Early on in this reply, I made the comment “specifically in restorations”. This brings me to another point I’d like to make, and leads me into the answer to your questions regarding avoiding masking lines.

That point being, when your car gets into a minor collision and you bring it into a bodyshop, you don’t honestly believe they fully disassemble the panels to be painted and spray them off the car do you? Of course not, production bodyshops are all about speed and efficiency. In and out, the quicker the better. Especially panels that can’t be removed, like quarter panels and box sides. So, the only option left is to mask the panels on the car, and shoot them where they are.

So along that line of thought, there’s several ways to skin that proverbial cat too. But most of them vary depending on the area to be masked. Personally, I plan on making almost exclusive use of this stuff...

View attachment 135739

View attachment 135740

....it’s a round foam product with a very sticky adhesive on one side. It’s used to obviously prevent paint from going where you don’t want it, but because it’s round it doesn’t leave a hard edge. It leaves a soft edge that can be carefully blended into the underlying paint if desired, but that’s usually not bothered with. I plan on using it inside anything that has a gap: Doors to quarters, trunk lid to quarters, trunk lid to filler panel, hood to fenders, etc etc.

About the only place I can’t really use it is in the door to fender gaps. That’s because there’s absolutely no access to the backside of that gap when the doors are closed. All is not lost here however either, some careful masking on the back inside of the fender gap, followed by back masking the door side while it’s still open, will protect this area once the door is closed. Like I said, various masking techniques will need to be used in different areas.

As for paint coverage on the edges? Two things; 1), I always make sure to back mask the panels when I paint the insides to ensure the edges get coverage, and 2), by using the techniques I outlined above, paint will still end up on the edges without leaving a mask line because of the soft edges. If there is any discernible difference between the inside and outside edges, it’ll be in a place that is all but impossible to see. (Like the backside of a fender edge).

So in closing, there’s really no right or wrong way to do it, but a lot of it depends on what you’re doing, and how, as well as taking into consideration things like metallic layouts.
I hope this adequately answered some of your questions, that was about the best way I could think of to explain it and my justification for doing it the way I am.

Great question by the way, thanks!

D.
Donovan,

Sorry for my slow response. I wanted to make sure I had a keyboard and plenty of time to give a good reply. First, I'm sorry to hear things have been tough for you personally lately and I hope everything settles down for you soon. I think we've all been there and that's probably the only meaningful thing I can say to encourage you.

Second, thanks for taking the time to give such a thorough answer. I realize it took time away from other things you could have been doing so I want to make sure you know that I sincerely appreciate it. You're obviously one of the most knowledgeable guys on here about this subject so I was really interested in your perspective on this.

The gentleman that painted Sean's Camaro was the guy who had to put it back together and the paint is a metallic. Like you said, there are just a few different schools of thought on the approach to paining a car and his is to disassemble it as much as possible to get the best result and then fight the reassembly. We didn't have that in mind when we built the car so I, in particular, was very uncomfortable with this approach. After spending so much time on gaps, alignment, making windows work right, etc. it was difficult for me to accept taking the car apart. Admittedly, you have to disassemble some of it to get a decent result. In the end we compromised and he left the doors hanging on it and the windows in the doors but pulled the weatherstrips. He pulled the roof rail trim, the bumpers, deck lid and the front clip. He did a great job. He made a few decisions (compromises), panel alignment wise that were different than the ones we made when he put it back together. I can't say that his decisions are wrong, rather they are just different than where we ended up. In the end I'm very happy that he painted the car and am very happy with the result. It's not perfect but is way above average and that car is a driver.

I was familiar with the round foam that you are using and this is what we had in mind for the Camaro. Sean and Dad have even used some on the Galaxie. I figured this is what you were going to use. it's obvious that you have a lot of skill with masking and believe me, I understand the level of effort that takes. I really suck at it. Sean is pretty good. Back when we were working on the Camaro and Galaxie I used to call him Mr. Blue Tape. If we could get you two together masking something, watch out! I know Oldscool is going to be beautiful when you have it painted and assembled. I also know you will enjoy it for years to come. I'm anxious to see the end results. It will be bittersweet since this is one of, if not my favorite threads on this forum. I've learned a lot following this thread so thanks for all the time you take to explain what you are doing and why. The silver lining is that classic cars are never "done" and once you have Oldscool painted and assembled, we have the Juggernaut thread to look forward to.

Thanks again for your reply.

Jared
 
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B's 87mcss

Greasemonkey
Dec 19, 2018
138
469
63
Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
Hey D, I wanted to also commend you on the quality of your posts. Even though my bodywork is all done and the car is in for paint, your explanations of paint and body have been quite helpful when talking to the guys at the bodyshop. My usual blank stares have now been replaced with a somewhat knowledgeable stare when we are talking about fit and finish, paint, etc.
On a more serious note, I wanted to convey that my thoughts are with you and yours as you go through some tough times, hope things come around for you soon.
Brian
 
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