Texas82GP's GMT900

[DRIVEN]

My unsolicited advice would be to put it in and run it as-is. Three reasons for that: First, if there is a major problem ( unlikely) you'll still be within your warranty with the wrecking yard. Second, to baseline what you have so you can gauge actual improvements with the shift kit. And third, it gives you a chance to run some more fresh fluid (with a new filter) through it before you kit it.

Yes, that is the OEM gasket and they are reusable. I think it's a lot more likely that it was recently serviced than that a yard monkey took the time to clean the pan out.

 

[Texas82GP]

Nice work! I bought a 4L80e with 40K on it and there was a small amount of clutch material in the pan. Your's has been cleaned out. I chose to go through mine for peace of mind but when I took it apart I found zero issues. If I had to do it over again it would have stayed together.

Thanks for weighing in. I appreciate it. I'm leaning towards the pan having been wiped clean as well. My pan doesn't have a drain plug.

Jam a shift kit in it and run it. Buy another 80E in the meanwhile and build it if it suits the budget. Sell the modified 85E and recoup your costs. Done and done.

Good idea Mike. All I'm trying to avoid is a failure in 10-15k miles when I don't have the luxury of something else to drive.

Worse comes to worse you'd have to pull it out again to rebuild it. The hard part of converting everything over is done. Pulling out a 2wd trans is pretty easy. Easy enough that to me it's worth a chance at saving a thousand dollars....

That's a good way to put it. I think it is probably worth the gamble to save $1k.

My unsolicited advice would be to put it in and run it as-is. Three reasons for that: First, if there is a major problem ( unlikely) you'll still be within your warranty with the wrecking yard. Second, to baseline what you have so you can gauge actual improvements with the shift kit. And third, it gives you a chance to run some more fresh fluid (with a new filter) through it before you kit it.

Yes, that is the OEM gasket and they are reusable. I think it's a lot more likely that it was recently serviced than that a yard monkey took the time to clean the pan out.

But I did solicit your advice. Your feedback has obvious merit.

Ok guys. Thanks for the feedback. You have me talked into going with it. I bought the shift kit, filter and gasket kit, and the seals/gaskets to reseal it on the outside yesterday. I'm going to clean it up, install the shift kit, reseal it, paint it and put it in.

I found a good write up on the wiring that simplifies the approach last night.....
https://sites.google.com/site/sloppywiki/everything-ls/4l80e-nnbs-t42-swap

The page didn't act right on my phone whether I used the Samsung browser or Chrome. It wouldn't scroll left or right so I couldn't see the information off the screen to the right. It works fine on PC so I've printed a hard copy.

I bought the paint for the rattle can rebuild this morning. Tonight I'm going to order gallons on Dex VI at the local O'Reilly's as that's the best deal I've found locally. I might stop at the Sam's on the way home. I won't set foot in a Walmart.

I would imagine I'll have to pay my tuner something to swap in the 4L80 tune (I'm going to offer to pay), but other than that, I think I'm pretty close to done spending money on this swap/repair.

That's it for now gents. As always, thanks for the feedback and for following along.

Best,

Jared

 

[Texas82GP]

I've been busy so I haven't had a chance to post an update. Here goes:

I went over to the storage on Saturday to pull the transmission back out. I did so without any drama (thankfully). Next, I decided I wanted to flush the transmission lines and cooler (one in the radiator and one auxiliary. I used an aerosol flush from ATP. You can see it on one of the shelves in this pic (I think I'm done buying stuff for this project)....

I had the adapter that is the GM quick connect on one end and a 5/16 inverted flare fitting on the other end so hooking up the can was a snap....

By the way, for anyone working with those stupid quick connect fittings, this little inexpensive tool makes working with them easier....

Here's a shot of the adapter on the transmission line....

Notice the splotches all over the passenger side header? Yeah, I managed to make a huge mess doing this. Poor preparation. I didn't start out with near big enough a catch container, and suffered the consequences. I back flushed the lines/coolers. I didn't like how what came out looked....

I ran two cans of flush through the system. The second can looked a lot better. Then I ran quite a bit of compressed air through the lines. I was still getting some black/grey residue on the paper towel when blowing out the lines so I ordered two more cans of that flush. I'd rather overkill this than regret not doing so.

Next, I decided to tackle the wiring. I started with replacing some cooked convoluted tubing on a section of the harness. Some of you may have noticed the uncovered wires in some of the pictures in previous posts. Around 20% of the convoluted tubing on this truck has gotten very crispy and just disintegrates when you touch it. It must be bad materials. Here's a pic showing the new tubing...

By the way, I may have mentioned it in my Grand Prix thread, but this electrical tape is awesome stuff. It's the only kind I will buy going forward....

Next, following the Sloppy Mechanics guide I previously linked in this thread, I tackled repining the main transmission connector....

Basically, you pull the white wire, and it is no longer used. The brown wire moves from its original location to where the white wire was. The light blue and orange wires become the leads for the front speed sensor (the 4L80E has two speed sensors, where the 4L60E only has one). I sourced a pigtail for the front speed sensor online. It is the same for a 60E, 80E and even a T56, maybe others....

I have an assortment of those heat shrink solderless connectors and I really like them. They might be 3M brand, if my memory is correct. Here, I've got the main connector all back together and the new pigtail spliced in....

And here, everything is buttoned up, ready to go....

I forgot to mention that before I pulled the transmission, I cleaned up the stock pan and swapped it back on. It is much shorter so it is much better for getting the transmission out from under the truck on the jack. I pulled the filter while I was in there and took it home with me. Sunday I worked on chores around the house and a few small projects on my brother's truck. I also got started on painting the new cast aluminum transmission pan and the cast aluminum lower bellhousing. That's not finished to my satisfaction so no pics on that yet. I also pried that filter open for a look inside. I didn't like what I found....

I decided to have the transmission overhauled. I've spent around $120 on fluid. Add that to the cost of a new filter and having my torque converter cleaned out or replaced and I decided I didn't want to gamble. Its obvious to me that the salvage yard cleaned out the pan and the magnet while they had it down to drain the fluid for shipping. I took both transmissions (the 65E and the 85E) to a builder my friend recommended yesterday. He said the black material on the filter was clutch material. He said the metal is likely Babbitt bearing (bushing) material. He said the orange material is from the Teflon sealing rings. He didn't think it looked terrible but he thought it warranted going in and having a look. I traded the 65E core for a big chunk of his labor building my transmission. My buddy is cutting me a break on the parts so I should be able to pull this off for less than $1000 cash. At this point, I want to do this once and do it right. I'd like to get the truck back on the road and work on my Grand Prix, some day.

The builder was a little shocked that I went with such a "high" stall speed for my converter. I went with 3600-3700. Circle D's reaction was "this converter should work great". For grins I emailed FTI for their recommendation. They followed up with a few questions, which I've answered, but I haven't heard back from them yet. Since I bought the converter from Circle D, I feel pretty good using their recommendation. Still, this guy (the builder) clearly knew what he was talking about (as far as building transmissions) so I didn't totally discount his concern. Anybody else think I screwed the pooch?

I talked to the builder about transmission temperature. I had seen low 200's when in traffic on a hot day with the 65E running the Circle D converter, the cooler in the stock radiator and the stock external cooler that would come from a truck with the tow package (I added it when I put in the first Circle D converter). His feedback was this was fine. It was ten degrees or so less than engine operating temp so it was good. I should be fine with the bigger auxiliary cooler I'm putting in for sure.

That's it for now guys. Thanks for following along. I'll update when there is more progress to report.

Until then, Best,

Jared

 

[Gonzo1970]

Jared,

Watching this thread with great anticipation, and even greater jealousy.

Does it mean I'm getting old when I look at those pics and think "Man, what a nice set-up to work on a car.. and look how CLEAN all those bolts are and how EASY those bolts must have been to get off... "

(Or, Ive just been working on old cars so long with frozen/rusted/stubborn bolts, that 'getting the old bolts loose' is more of a concern than anything else... lol)

Looking great!

-Gonz

 

[Streetbu]

I'm curious to see what the transmission guy says once he gets it apart. I feel it's a lot like the old saying if you're a hammer every problem is a nail. Of course a transmission guy is going to say yes to easy bench work where he can make a 1k in a couple of hours and not even get dirty. Who wouldn't want that! Your progress looks good!

 

[DRIVEN]

Piece of mind sometimes isn't cheap but at least you'll know what you have. I'll be pretty surprised if the builder finds anything serious.

 

[ssn696]

You might want to rig a heat shield on top of the crossover pipe so it does not heat up the trans oil when sitting in traffic.

 

[motorheadmike]

Piece of mind sometimes isn't cheap but at least you'll know what you have. I'll be pretty surprised if the builder finds anything serious.

When I had the 70E built for my TBSS the builder justifiably charged me extra labour for all the *ss-pain I caused him for laying the specs/mods out. It cost him time, so it cost me money.

They always get you somewhere.

 

[fleming442]

Man, that Super 88 is expensive stuff to be using as harness wrap! It is great for covering connections, though. For split loom trim, I use friction tape:

It doesn't get as gooey when it gets hot, and unravel all over the place. And, yes, heat shrink butt connectors are the bee's knees!

I think you made a good call getting the trans done, and it's super cool that he took your old as a trade.

 

[Texas82GP]

Jared,

Watching this thread with great anticipation, and even greater jealousy.

Does it mean I'm getting old when I look at those pics and think "Man, what a nice set-up to work on a car.. and look how CLEAN all those bolts are and how EASY those bolts must have been to get off... "

(Or, Ive just been working on old cars so long with frozen/rusted/stubborn bolts, that 'getting the old bolts loose' is more of a concern than anything else... lol)

Looking great!

-Gonz

Thanks Gonz. It is a really nice place to work. I mean, I wish I was buying it instead of renting it, that it had a bathroom, was a little tighter against the elements, had 220V, etc. but it is 'mine'. The last time I pulled the transmission out of this truck, I did it in my driveway, during the winter. This is much, much nicer. I'm fortunate to be in a position to have this luxury. The truck is 11 years old but is pretty clean from a perspective of stubborn fasteners/rust. We don't have salt or brine down here on the roads. If cars don't sit around out in the elements, they don't really rust. I'm grateful for that too.

I'm curious to see what the transmission guy says once he gets it apart. I feel it's a lot like the old saying if you're a hammer every problem is a nail. Of course a transmission guy is going to say yes to easy bench work where he can make a 1k in a couple of hours and not even get dirty. Who wouldn't want that! Your progress looks good!

Thanks. I had made my decision to have the transmission freshened up before he looked at what was in the filter. He struck me as straight shooter so I don't think he is selling me unneeded services. He didn't expect to do anything more than frictions, steels, bushings, seals, etc. This way, the entire reprogramming kit can be installed, instead of just the part you can get to with the pan pulled. He quoted me $120 an hour and said he couldn't imagine spending 6 hours on it so it won't approach $1k for him. My buddy is cutting me a deal on the parts so my guess is roughly $500 for parts.

Piece of mind sometimes isn't cheap but at least you'll know what you have. I'll be pretty surprised if the builder finds anything serious.

Agreed. I don't think it is torn up. I wish the salvage yard wouldn't have wiped out the pan and the magnet. It doesn't matter. I'm getting a fresh start. I'd like to get at least 100k miles out of this install.

You might want to rig a heat shield on top of the crossover pipe so it does not heat up the trans oil when sitting in traffic.

That's a great idea Quinn. I'll look at it. when I put it back together. I've already got some ideas on how to execute it.

When I had the 70E built for my TBSS the builder justifiably charged me extra labour for all the *ss-pain I caused him for laying the specs/mods out. It cost him time, so it cost me money.

They always get you somewhere.

I pretty well turned this guy loose. I told him I wanted it to live behind 400 ft. lbs. which shouldn't be hard since it is rated for 460 ft. lbs. I told him it would shift at 6k RPM. I told him I wanted the HD-2 kit installed. He said he wanted to use "Redline" (Raybestos Stage 1) clutches and Kolene steels. I told him fine. I told him to let my buddy know what he needed. His feedback was it would be a pretty standard rebuild except for the clutches/steels/reprograming kit. I'll be interested to hear what he says when he has it torn down.

Man, that Super 88 is expensive stuff to be using as harness wrap! It is great for covering connections, though. For split loom trim, I use friction tape:
View attachment 109688
It doesn't get as gooey when it gets hot, and unravel all over the place. And, yes, heat shrink butt connectors are the bee's knees!

I think you made a good call getting the trans done, and it's super cool that he took your old as a trade.

When you praise the materials I'm using for wiring I know I'm doing something right, Bruce. I've used a lot of friction tape on Dad's Galaxie. It has the right look. On this harness, It had black tape on it so I went back with black tape. Sure the Super 88 costs more but I'll pay for the quality. Agreed, it's nice that he took the 65E core towards the labor on the build. It get the 65E out of my shop, will ensure that those parts get used again, and helps me recoup some of the money I poured into it. The builder said he'd seen very few of those output shafts break. He also said I should be able to keep a 65E alive behind my 5.3. I told him I was too far down the 85E swap rabbit hole to go back now.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Much appreciated.

Best,

Jared