The Time to Get Creative Was Yesterday.

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79 GP 4 speed

Master Mechanic
Nov 12, 2017
447
535
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I don't agree with deleting emissions on a lot of vehicles. My friend did it on his pickup truck due to the fact that it was about $5000.00 for the emission parts he needed and about 1500 to delete. I also believe that people buying new trucks and deleting emissions is stupid as they have the bugs worked out on the emission equipment
 

Supercharged111

Comic Book Super Hero
Oct 25, 2019
4,908
7,670
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Colorado Springs, CO
Fuel economy did drop in the 1st stages of EGR and exhaust containing aftertreatment systems in the mid 2000's. But not now. 7-8.5mpg at 80,000lbs is common. That's almost double from the fuel economy of 20 years ago WITHOUT soot and 99.5% of the previous Nox discharge.

Making an argument to eliminate emissions on a diesel truck because soot isn't that bad, or it's cheaper is laughable. Emission standards aren't the enemy, and neither is the hotrodder. The enemy is the dingaling that doesn't understand the difference between a hotrodder burning 150 gallons per year and an operator burning 2000-40000 gallons per year. Yes, 40,000 gallons per year.

Who was getting 4mpg? My dad used to get 5-6 IIRC. But still, 7.5-8 is a huge jump over that
 

81cutlass

Comic Book Super Hero
Feb 16, 2009
4,639
13,542
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Western MN
I believe the reason the EPA reinterpreted the existing law to apply to aftermarket tuning and certain delete devices is VW/Dieselgate.

The EPA realized the laws can easily be circumvented and took a deep look into them. Obviously OEM was primary but once you get down the rabbit hole there is no going back. Exhaust, software, ect. They aren't looking into quantity, they are simply looking into the fact that the 'law' was broken.

If the goal was to reduce total emissions, absolutely, they SHOULD be looking at fleet trucks, marine, military, and the oodles of other sources that burn magnitudes more fuel than hobbyist motorsports but they don't care, it's either out of their jurisdiction or their focus. Their goal is to enforce law on the books and what their jurisdiction is.

The big drive behind fleet diesel delete is the immense cost of replacement. When it adds no (and actually subtracts) efficiency, and increases cost while providing zero financial benefit to the owner and increase downtime, of course people are going to delete it even if it is illegal.

If the govt provided or mandated lifetime warranty on highway emission components I think a lot of people would not do deletes, but when it costs $5-$8k in parts plus labor to keep the system working, and it costs 1/3 or less do delete, it's not surprising. Especially when powertrain warranties are in the 50-100k range and emission component warranties are 1/4 to 1/2 as long.

Necessity is the mother of invention.
 
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64nailhead

Goat Herder
Dec 1, 2014
5,659
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Upstate NY
Who was getting 4mpg? My dad used to get 5-6 IIRC. But still, 7.5-8 is a huge jump over that
Milk haulers, fuel haulers, garbage haulers at 100k lbs. The 1st EGR trucks that my employer had in 2003 dropped to 3.5. It was awful, and the reliability of those trucks matched.
 

csstrux

Greasemonkey
Apr 5, 2017
143
76
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The soot particulate may drop out of the air and may or may not be neutral from a greenhouse gas position.

But leaving that aside, if youve got a breathing issue like so many have, those clouds of soot? That leaves you gasping, hacking, and wheezing.

Multiply that by the number of units running at times in certain areas, and thats your problem.
Well have to agree to disagree on this one. Grew up with bronchial issues. Have lived around trucks most of my adult life.
Fuel economy did drop in the 1st stages of EGR and exhaust containing aftertreatment systems in the mid 2000's. But not now. 7-8.5mpg at 80,000lbs is common. That's almost double from the fuel economy of 20 years ago WITHOUT soot and 99.5% of the previous Nox discharge.

Making an argument to eliminate emissions on a diesel truck because soot isn't that bad, or it's cheaper is laughable. Emission standards aren't the enemy, and neither is the hotrodder. The enemy is the dingaling that doesn't understand the difference between a hotrodder burning 150 gallons per year and an operator burning 2000-40000 gallons per year. Yes, 40,000 gallons per year.
When I got out it was 5.5 if you were very disciplined. You both miss my point which I thought fairly obvious, but apparently not. These moonbats keep forcing issues technology isn't ready to deal with. making things harder than they need to be. More expensive and messier to boot. Kind of like the electric cars by was it 35? Technology is headed that way already. Leave it TF alone. EPA and their nazi BS is about power. The cars we are working on are a thing of the past. Most of what we are seeing on the lots are disposable. Pretty soon gas/diesel powered vehicles will be a memory only. Global warming was proven a false, the coming ice age before that. The climate has never not been changing, and there is little humankind can do about it. We can however, live the best lives we know how, respecting the home we were born in as best we can and should be left to do so as free men which the constitution was supposed to guarantee. If I say more I'll probably cross a line I would rather avoid.
 
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64nailhead

Goat Herder
Dec 1, 2014
5,659
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Upstate NY
Well have to agree to disagree on this one. Grew up with bronchial issues. Have lived around trucks most of my adult life.

When I got out it was 5.5 if you were very disciplined. You both miss my point which I thought fairly obvious, but apparently not. These moonbats keep forcing issues technology isn't ready to deal with. making things harder than they need to be. More expensive and messier to boot. Kind of like the electric cars by was it 35? Technology is headed that way already. Leave it TF alone. EPA and their nazi BS is about power. The cars we are working on are a thing of the past. Most of what we are seeing on the lots are disposable. Pretty soon gas/diesel powered vehicles will be a memory only. Global warming was proven a false, the coming ice age before that. The climate has never not been changing, and there is little humankind can do about it. We can however, live the best lives we know how, respecting the home we were born in as best we can and should be left to do so as free men which the constitution was supposed to guarantee. If I say more I'll probably cross a line I would rather avoid.
Ahhh, a science denying opinion.

On that I will do GP403 a favor and be out on this thread. Ignorance is bliss - look in the mirror and tell me if you see bliss.
 
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jiho

Royal Smart Person
Jul 26, 2013
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