timing chain replacement (Oldsmobile V-8)

[DrRansom442]

OK new post time ... since I know my no-start woes are obviously not electrical. If you haven't seen the other post. Car is in the signature ... 81 Olds Calais 260 w/ th350 auto. Last week I started stripping my 260 down to replace the timing chain that has obviously slipped. I liked to never got the bolt out of the harmonic balancer and now I have the puller setup to yank the balancer out and surprise, surprise I once again am just turning the motor over ... I used the pullers bolts and a fan clutch tool to hold the crank still to get the bolt out, but now that the remover is on how am I to hold the crank still? I am still finding my flywheel holder just as useless. Do I possibly have the tool on wrong? I got two long bolts in ajscent pulley mounting holes ... I put the seat on the end of the pilot shaft and adjusted till the slack was out. Anyone know of a video ... I feel fricken retarded, but then again it's probably been 15 years plus since I've been into an engine this far. Between the weather and such I've only been working on this weekends and so far THIS morning is shot. I'd really like to have my car up and going before Jan (plates are coming up)


http://gbodyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7452&highlight=
original post

 

[pontiacman469]

I'd try a long screwdriver wedged in the flywheel to hold it.Worked for me before

 

[dogsht]

fwiw I would not put any money / work into a 260. With a little work you should be able to find a running 350/403 that will drop right in. It will be a lot more fun to drive and because you don't have to hold the pedal to the floor to keep up with traffic at every red light it won't use more fuel at least not around town.

 

[pontiacman469]

Ya but whose got a $1000?For about $50 you can fix the timing chain and go..Workin with what you got...

 

[jrm81bu]

Don't balancer pullers have a spot to put two wrenches, one to hold and one to turn. Something like this
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

 

[joe_padavano]

There is a factory tool that bolts to the balancer to hold the engine from turning over, but I made one cheaply by welding a bar to an old crank pulley. Now I just unbolt the original pulley, bolt the tool in place instead, and use it to hold the crank while I remove and install the balancer bolt and the balancer itself. Lots easier than getting under the car and jamming a screwdriver in the flexplate (which often bends the flexplate). Yes, you can use an impact wrench to get the balancer bolt loose, but how do you torque it when reassembling without some way to hold the motor?

The next problem you'll have is getting the front cover back on. The rubber seal on the bottom of the cover is designed to be compressed by installing the oil pan after the cover is in place. You can try loosening the oil pan (which runs the risk of damaging the gasket) but the other way around this is to cut off the sealing ribs on the rubber seal and instead use silicone sealer when you reinstall the cover. This is not ideal but it works and makes cover installation much easier.

Finally, get a repair sleeve for the balancer. The factory front seal usually wears a groove in the balancer and the new seal gets torn up. The sleeve is very thin stainless and presses over the hub of the balancer to renew the sealing surface. Oh, and DON'T forget to reinstall the oil slinger when putting it back together. DO NOT ask my how I know this...

 

[DrRansom442]

well warmer weather and getting the holidays past...has let me re-evaluate things. As it turns out the puller that I rented has that point shaped guide to put on the crank so that the puller doesn't thread in ... well as it turns out the diameter of the guide was too large and it was seating on the balancer itself. I noticed this by the shiny metal ring left behind around the inside of the balancer where the tool scraped away rust and paint. The balancer came off almost effortlessly with a $20. Harbor Freight steering wheel puller. That's the good news.
now the bad the timing chain is the issue - however the timing chain nor the gears failed. What has happenned is the cam gear sheered right off the cam ... I think it is time to call this engine dead. I really don't think it's worthwhile to go through a cam install. This weekend I will be weighing all my options ... ideally a Olds 350 drop is my ideal. I just need to know time/resource vs time the car will be down options. I do know it won't be able to sit in the garage indefinately - already I am getting bitched at, and with the plates coming up soon it won't sit outside long before the county wants to tag it with a tow sticker.

 

[DrRansom442]

There is a factory tool that bolts to the balancer to hold the engine from turning over, but I made one cheaply by welding a bar to an old crank pulley. Now I just unbolt the original pulley, bolt the tool in place instead, and use it to hold the crank while I remove and install the balancer bolt and the balancer itself. Lots easier than getting under the car and jamming a screwdriver in the flexplate (which often bends the flexplate).

I was thinking about this as a neccassity but I had a few rolls of 550 paracord laying around which I just tied to the puller ... that issue resolved.

Yes, you can use an impact wrench to get the balancer bolt loose, but how do you torque it when reassembling without some way to hold the motor?

use the impact wrench - should not be as tight as it was - especially with all the rust removed.

The next problem you'll have is getting the front cover back on. The rubber seal on the bottom of the cover is designed to be compressed by installing the oil pan after the cover is in place. You can try loosening the oil pan (which runs the risk of damaging the gasket) but the other way around this is to cut off the sealing ribs on the rubber seal and instead use silicone sealer when you reinstall the cover. This is not ideal but it works and makes cover installation much easier.

actually this seal is easily replace with the pan in place. Instructions are in most service manuals and it does NOT require undoing the pan. The pan actually sticks out past the block a little

Finally, get a repair sleeve for the balancer. The factory front seal usually wears a groove in the balancer and the new seal gets torn up. The sleeve is very thin stainless and presses over the hub of the balancer to renew the sealing surface. Oh, and DON'T forget to reinstall the oil slinger when putting it back together. DO NOT ask my how I know this...

Believe the seal is in the box with the timing set from Napa (I was going to make a list of stuff to buy to put it back together (i.e. 1 kinked trans cooler line, upper radiator hose, heater hose {both I had to cut}, et cetera) - as with anything old - it didn't all come apart as it should have). As for the oil slinger - very common. I was going to copy my exploded view (out of a GM manual) have everything nice cleaned and organized and just follow the pictures .... if you are like me bolts and stuff usually land on the floor (with umpteen tools) and everything gets all mixed up anyways. I am horribly unorganized stripping stuff apart. So I make it a point to gather everything together and create an order before reinstalling, but thank you very much for the post. ALOT of good info there and I liked your idea for the tool. Wished I'd heard it before.

 

[dan2286]

The next problem you'll have is getting the front cover back on. The rubber seal on the bottom of the cover is designed to be compressed by installing the oil pan after the cover is in place. You can try loosening the oil pan (which runs the risk of damaging the gasket) but the other way around this is to cut off the sealing ribs on the rubber seal and instead use silicone sealer when you reinstall the cover. This is not ideal but it works and makes cover installation much easier.

actually this seal is easily replace with the pan in place. Instructions are in most service manuals and it does NOT require undoing the pan. The pan actually sticks out past the block a little

If this is set up like an Olds 350, it is not fun at all trying to get the front cover back on with the oil pan on. You cant get the dowel pins lined up to make the cover flush with the block with the oil pan bolts tight, it is still a pain in the *ss with the an bolts loosened. It probably took me almost an hour just to get the cover back on, I was pretty pissed :evil: . I can almost guarantee I messed up the seal pretty bad, but I have not got the engine running yet to tell.

I would really follow Joe's advice on this. If I would have known their were tricks to make putting the cover back on easier, I would have definitely have done it that way.

 

[DrRansom442]

260 and 350 essentially identical engines (atleast they are based on teh same platform), what applies to 1 - applies to the other probably 99.9% of the time, likewise most parts interchange (to varying degrees of capatablity). Actually now that I grasped what Joe was saying (I kinda glanced it over the first time) ...it's exactly how the GM service manual tells you to do it. Cut off the ears and reseal with silicone ... so unwittingly I have and would have been following his advice. Sorry. The pictures in the manual are a tad clearer to me than verbal instructions.
As for the dowels ...they were meant to be pulled off and re-inserted (or replaced as needed). I imagine leaving them where they are and trying to re-align would be hard ... front cover didn't come off straight ... they'd have had to have misaligned during cover removal. It's all moot now though ... my cam is messed up. I need to figure out plan B.