too advanced but not advanced enough?

Status
Not open for further replies.

lelanb

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Dec 30, 2015
19
3
3
i have a sbc 350 in my 85 cutlass with a new 4mv qjet on top from guaranteedcarbs. when i advance the timing enough for it to run nicely and shift correctly (make good vacuum) it hard starts and kickbacks, but when I retard it to start it easily it takes forever to shift.

also it seems like my secondaries never open when i stomp the gas, it just gets louder but doesnt pick up any speed.

i ran through the entire car and cant find a vacuum leak anywhere, i dont have a timing light so i try to get relatively close with a vacuum gauge but the vacuum never drops down when i advance it all the way like it should
 

axisg

Comic Book Super Hero
Jul 17, 2007
2,685
2,354
113
YYZ
Really, you need some tools to do the job right!
Without a timing light its just guesswork ( which I did a lot of over the years ). Spend the $$ and get a good "advanced" timing light. This will help a great deal with being able to adjust not only "base" timing but more importantly what your "advanced" timing is at a certain RPM.

I set up most SBC with either 36 or 38 deg "all-in" by 3000 rpms. That then leaves the "base" timing to where ever it needs to be.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Bosch-Actron/885/CP7529/10002/-1.

Then with the timing set you move on to the carb.

You can get a carb to run "pretty good" by ear and vacuum. But to properly adjust the carb a Wide Band A/F ratio gauge takes 95% of the guesswork out of tuning. After install last spring I wish I would have been using this for the last 20+ years. My car has never run so good and I am now able to dial in the last little bit to turn it correctly.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Innovate-Motorsports/540/3844/10002/-1

Specifically if the secondaries are hanging up it could be too rich or the air doors opening too soon or the secondary lockout is engaging because the choke is not open all the way, I am sure others will chime in shortly.
 
  • Agree
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

MrSony

Geezer
Nov 15, 2014
6,828
6,736
113
Des Moines, Iowa
To see if the secondaries are hanging up or not, take the choke pull off off the front of the carb and take the green rod off. Put the pull off back on. Hold the butterfly valves open and peer down inside. Whack the throttle open all the way and if you don't see the secondaries open or feel any amount of hang up or resistance, trouble shoot from there. DON'T FORGET TO PUT THE ROD BACK ON. There are only a few ways they can hang up. Either the secondary lockout tang on the passenger side of the base plate is stuck or not retracting once the choke is all the way open (car is warmed up), there is a bind in the linkage on the driver's side, or the throttle plates are mis-aligned in the bores of the base plate. The adjustment for the air doors is as follows: There is a 3/32 (if I remember right) allen screw on the underside of the passenger side of the air horn. Loosen that to where the air doors flop open. Use a flathead screwdriver on the screw on the air door shaft right above the allen screw to adjust. There is a little hook spring under there by the allen screw. Standard adjustment is 3/4 a turn. While holding the flathead screw, tighten the allen set screw. Start from there and if it bogs at WOT or as soon as you stab it, make it a bit tighter. A BIT. Like 1/8 a turn at a time. If it seems to take forever to get going, it may need to be looser.
 

TRX

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Aug 20, 2009
31
4
8
Central Arkansas
An '85 will have almost no advance built into the distributor. That was part of the old-style smog controls. Depending on the calibration, you may see only four to six degrees of centrifugal advance.

You can buy HEI recurve kits from Mr. Gasket and other sources; any big speed shop will have something. The HEI is very easy to curve compared to most distributors; all the mechanism is on the top, and you don't have to disassemble the entire distributor every time you make a change. You want a fairly smooth curve from idle to 3000 RPM or so. Some aftermarket distributors still come with 1950s-style hit-em-hard curve jamming 12 or more degrees in by 1500 RPM, which worked okay with a rich mixture and 105 octane regular, but doesn't work well on street gas.

A properly curved distributor will have zero to four degrees of static advance, and the curve will be *just* below the ping limit the rest of the way up. Most street engines are relatively insensitive to advance over 3000 RPM. You're not going to get a perfect curve without a lot of work, but a few tries will get you close enough.

When you make your full-throttle runs listening for ping, try it both with the windows up and the windows down; it may be easier to hear one way or the other.

You don't care what the actual advance numbers are; the car will tell you what it wants. Then you can put the timing light on it if you want.

Keep a written record of what you're doing; it will keep you from overshooting calibrations and wasting time.

You also want an aftermarket adjustable vacuum advance. The primary purpose of the vacuum advance is low-throttle cruise, like rolling around at 35mph in town or 65 on the freeway. When you push down on the throttle vacuum drops, and so does the advance, down to where you set the centrifugal, if you get it all set right. A properly calibrated vacuum advance can give you several MPG in most driving; it's worth your time to work on it a while. The money you save on gas will buy more car parts.
 

lelanb

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Dec 30, 2015
19
3
3
So I had my neighbor check over everything, he has way more tools than I do and got me timed correctly, and i figured out my secondary problem

My only issue is that now that I've gotten the ac charged , it dies when I come to a stop, but only on interstate exit ramps when the compressor is running, what could that be?
 

pontiacgp

blank
Mar 31, 2006
29,270
20,391
113
Kitchener, Ontario
So I had my neighbor check over everything, he has way more tools than I do and got me timed correctly, and i figured out my secondary problem

My only issue is that now that I've gotten the ac charged , it dies when I come to a stop, but only on interstate exit ramps when the compressor is running, what could that be?

you should have a solenoid on the drivers side of the carb at the front which will increase the rpm when the ac compressor turns on

0900c1528007d9c2.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

ed1948

Royal Smart Person
Aug 6, 2016
1,286
1,613
113
Quinte West, Ontario
Maybe or maybe not..
(1)I had a 76 Nova that would stall every exit off the highway. The EGR was sticky and restarting the engine would 'reset' it and allow it to idle.
(2) But I also suspect the throttle kicker because the stall occurs at idle with AC on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Status
Not open for further replies.

GBodyForum is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Amazon, the Amazon logo, AmazonSupply, and the AmazonSupply logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.

Please support GBodyForum Sponsors

Classic Truck Consoles Dixie Restoration Depot UMI Performance

Contact [email protected] for info on becoming a sponsor