VS1100 Melling valve springs - Oldsmobile

kustomkyle

kustomkyle

G-Body Guru
Apr 14, 2008
588
31
18
#1
Anyone ever use these? Supposedly a dual spring, for Melling's MTO-1 camshaft (non-roller hydraulic).

Looking for something suitable for a little more lift/duration for a VIN 9 roller camshaft. VIN Y maybe ok especially without drag racing gearing and converter, but also looking for something that won't be shot after 50,000 miles.
 
Last edited:
8

84riv307

n00b
Feb 6, 2019
1
1
3
#3
Anyone ever use these? Supposedly a dual spring, for Melling's MTO-1 camshaft (non-roller hydraulic).

Looking for something suitable for a little more lift/duration for a VIN 9 roller camshaft. VIN Y maybe ok especially without drag racing gearing and converter, but also looking for something that won't be shot after 50,000 miles.

I was researching this exact topic less than a month ago and that is THE ONLY spring (melling VS1100) that I came up with that is still available and from what I can tell it is the correct spring. Same spring as the 350 Olds diesel. Hard to find. Found it on the actual melling cross-reference page.

Mildly considering an upgrade to my 84 Riviera to a vin 9 setup. The prob I have is FWD tranny leaves fewer gearing options. Already did the carb upgrade (don't forget this part especially since it's the easiest). Most of those non-Y 307's had a tab that blocked secondaries from opening past 60 or so degrees. Get some thinner metering rods (sorry don't know which size is best and I just swiped them from a standard Q-jet that by the numbers was for a 455 buick lol) and bend that tab out (if you bend it rather than grind it off you can always switch back). Do the metering rods first or you'll be running too lean at WOT and that can damage engine. This will add ponies instantly at wide open throttle. Here is a link to a 307 olds site with cool tricks and tips including an explanation for that tab mod with pics:

http://performanceolds307.tripod.com/index.html

http://performanceolds307.tripod.com/id6.html

This second link is the page with the tab fix and he clearly says to change metering rods but he downplays the need for doing so immediately. You HAVE to change them at the same time or risk severe engine damage (like burning holes in your pistons) from running too lean.

Probably the best site for the 307 olds motor I've seen and trust me I've looked and looked and then looked some more. Best one. It is not a forum, just a cool blog. This is especially true if you want to keep the computer for smog reasons. My cam is the non-roller (84 was last year unless you have a 442) so we differ there but the carb is same I think and both have that tab I mentioned. I know the closest cross-reference for the non-roller vin 9 cam is a sealed power CS651. Not sure what the roller cam vin 9 is. I just put this in the thread for anyone else that may be reading along. VS1100 spring is the same for both versions of vin 9 cams.

Good luck with upgrade!

Paul.
 
kustomkyle

kustomkyle

G-Body Guru
Apr 14, 2008
588
31
18
#4
I was researching this exact topic less than a month ago and that is THE ONLY spring (melling VS1100) that I came up with that is still available and from what I can tell it is the correct spring. Same spring as the 350 Olds diesel. Hard to find. Found it on the actual melling cross-reference page.

Mildly considering an upgrade to my 84 Riviera to a vin 9 setup. The prob I have is FWD tranny leaves fewer gearing options. Already did the carb upgrade (don't forget this part especially since it's the easiest). Most of those non-Y 307's had a tab that blocked secondaries from opening past 60 or so degrees. Get some thinner metering rods (sorry don't know which size is best and I just swiped them from a standard Q-jet that by the numbers was for a 455 buick lol) and bend that tab out (if you bend it rather than grind it off you can always switch back). Do the metering rods first or you'll be running too lean at WOT and that can damage engine. This will add ponies instantly at wide open throttle. Here is a link to a 307 olds site with cool tricks and tips including an explanation for that tab mod with pics:

http://performanceolds307.tripod.com/index.html

http://performanceolds307.tripod.com/id6.html

This second link is the page with the tab fix and he clearly says to change metering rods but he downplays the need for doing so immediately. You HAVE to change them at the same time or risk severe engine damage (like burning holes in your pistons) from running too lean.

Probably the best site for the 307 olds motor I've seen and trust me I've looked and looked and then looked some more. Best one. It is not a forum, just a cool blog. This is especially true if you want to keep the computer for smog reasons. My cam is the non-roller (84 was last year unless you have a 442) so we differ there but the carb is same I think and both have that tab I mentioned. I know the closest cross-reference for the non-roller vin 9 cam is a sealed power CS651. Not sure what the roller cam vin 9 is. I just put this in the thread for anyone else that may be reading along. VS1100 spring is the same for both versions of vin 9 cams.

Good luck with upgrade!

Paul.
Thanks for all the info. I've read those webpages a few times, decent stuff.

I'll have to find good specs on factory valve springs vs the Melling. Most people don't know or care about the 307, especially the swirl port/roller cam ones, so it's good to finally ask a question lately and get replies other than one or two that suggest swapping to a larger engine in broken/vulgar English.
 
69hurstolds

69hurstolds

Royal Smart Person
Jan 2, 2006
1,157
1,470
113
#5
22510372 is the GM part number for springs to go along with the 83-90 VIN 9 camshafts. The same-era diesel engines used the same spring.

The VS1100 listed at Rockauto.com at $2.55 each. But they only show 4 available (comes in pack of 4 @ 10.20 per pack), so basically they only have one set on the shelf.

You're good with getting them through Summit if you need more I guess. $46 and change for a set of 16 (sold individually for $2.93 each)

NOS springs will be a bit pricey by comparison.
 
69hurstolds

69hurstolds

Royal Smart Person
Jan 2, 2006
1,157
1,470
113
#6
Don't have any way to corroborate the following, but maybe this can help:

Higer Rate Valve Springs:
'83-'90 VIN 9: GM# 22510372

Spring Pressure @ 1.270": VIN9 203-217 lbs, VINY 180-194 lbs.
Spring Pressure @ 1.670": VIN9 85-95 lbs, VINY 76-84 lbs.
Spring free length: VIN9 2.090", VINY 1.960"

Pushrod Length: 8.265" hyd. / 7.718" roller

(courtesy of http://www.gbodyolds.com/forum/showthread.php?72-307-VIN-Y-to-a-VIN-9 )
 
69hurstolds

69hurstolds

Royal Smart Person
Jan 2, 2006
1,157
1,470
113
#7
Here's the entire post, since it has good info. Still reference the thread source above...





here are two different versions of the H.O. 307 VIN 9 engine. From 1983 through 1985 the VIN 9 engine was a hydraulic flat tappet cam engine with larger port 5A heads use on both '83 and '84 Hurst Olds and '85 442. In 1986 and 1987 Oldsmobile perfected the design of the 307 with a roller cam and lifters and incorporating a swirl port design 7A head with smaller ports. This design produced more torque at lower RPM but reduced the horse power rating by 10.

It is said that the peak of GM's carburated technology was Oldsmobile's 86-90 roller cammed 307. It is said that VIN 9 307's could also be found in some Cadillacs which can be a good start for a VIN 9 swap into your stock VIN Y Cutlass. Now many will say why not go with bigger cubes, all small blocks are a direct bolt in as well as big blocks to a certain extent. Well if you are looking for a V8 with great gas milage, smooth throttle response that is comparable to fuel injection and a good relyable daily driver then the 307 is for you.


Factory Performance Specs:
VIN 9 '83-'85
180 [email protected] rpm
245 [email protected] rpm

VIN 9 '86-'90
170 hp @ 4000 rpm
250 ft-lbs @ 2600 rpm

Here is a list of parts Oldsmobile used to change a VIN Y drive line into a VIN 9

Engine
Here is a list of parts that seperated the VIN 9 from the VIN Y:

Harmonic Balancer
Larger like all SBO and BBO balancers: GM# 417142

Intake
The manifolds are the same however the carb and aircleaner are as follows:
4MV Rochester Qjet: GM# 17083553 (1983) 17084553 (1984 & 85) and 17086009 (1986 & 87) EDIT for clarity: 84 carb is 17084554 and 85 carb is 17085554
Dual Snorkal Air Cleaner: GM# 25042690

Cam
0.440/0.440 lift 196/208 @0.050 lift 109LSA for 83-85
256/270 109LSA
0.435/0.438 194/210 0.050 lift 109LSA for 86-90
VIN 9's have a longer duration than the VIN Y
VIN 9 lifters are interchangeable with VIN Y

'83-'85 0.842" hyrdaulic flat tappet GM# 22519934
'86-'90 0.921" hydraulic roller: GM# 922531804 (pictured below)


Higer Rate Valve Springs:
'83-'90 VIN 9: GM# 22510372

Spring Pressure @ 1.270": VIN9 203-217 lbs, VINY 180-194 lbs.
Spring Pressure @ 1.670": VIN9 85-95 lbs, VINY 76-84 lbs.
Spring free length: VIN9 2.090", VINY 1.960"

Pushrod Length: 8.265" hyd. / 7.718" roller

Exhaust
The '83-'85 5A head VIN Y and '83-'90 VIN 9's used the same cast iron exhaust manifolds however the '86-'87 7A head VIN Y used tubular stainless steel.
All '83-'90 VIN 9 LH: GM# 22503678
All '83-'90 VIN 9 LH: GM# 22521449

If you want to give that factory look go with a Walker Exhaust system with a Y pipe split into duals.
If you can find NOS factory here are the part numbers:
Y-pipe: GM# 22516113
RH Muffler/Tailpipe: GM# 22526204
LH Muffler/Tailpipe: GM# 22526205Tailpipe hangers: GM# RH 22520308 and LH 22520309

Transmission:
VIN 9 cars use a 4 speed overdrive TH-2004r with different shift points due to different governors and also have a higher 2400RPM stall D5 converter (GM# 8653400 with CBBF on the paper tag, 2050RPM stall with 14 blade stator) than the stock VIN Y TH-2004r transmission.
D5 Torque converter PN's
'83-'85 OZ & BQ: 8634993
'86-87 KZF: 8642965 (BRF 8656903)
There were two different Transmissions offerered for VIN 9 vehicles
1983-85 has code OZ on the trans tag while '86-'87 reads KZF. These transmissions have a wide open throttle shift point (WOT) of 4800rpm than the VIN Y TH2004R which has a WOT shift point of 3000rpm.

The gear ratios: 1st: 2.74, 2nd: 1.57, 3rd: 1.00 and 4th (OD): 0.67

Here is some more info in 4-speeds:
The WOT shift points of CZF (Monte SS) and BQ and BRF(GN) 2004R's are at 5200rpm (due to a larger governor GM# 8655976)
The 86 and 87 BRF GN transmissions also have a larger servo for heaver shifting.

Valve Body:
1983 OZ: GM# 8639918
1984 OZ: GM# 8639131
1985 OZ: GM# 8639493
1986 & 87 KZF: GM# 8657286

ECM

1985: VIN 9 ECM GM# 16040813
Will dig up more info on this later.

Rear End
Though not necessary but always good is the a 3.73 gearing to get the same performace as a VIN 9 car.
It is not important which 10 bolt rear end you use, a 7.5" ('83 VIN 9) or the harder to find and more expensive 8.5" ('84-'87 VIN 9) will suffice since you are not pushing more than 400hp.
proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gbodyolds.com%2Fforum%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fwink.png&hash=aee30ae96e7de3a1ff986b285b9dd8f2

Also, 3.42, 3.23 and 3.08 gears are a good selection as well depending on your application.
 
kustomkyle

kustomkyle

G-Body Guru
Apr 14, 2008
588
31
18
#8
22510372 is the GM part number for springs to go along with the 83-90 VIN 9 camshafts. The same-era diesel engines used the same spring.

The VS1100 listed at Rockauto.com at $2.55 each. But they only show 4 available (comes in pack of 4 @ 10.20 per pack), so basically they only have one set on the shelf.

You're good with getting them through Summit if you need more I guess. $46 and change for a set of 16 (sold individually for $2.93 each)

NOS springs will be a bit pricey by comparison.
Ok, thanks for the confirmation. I knew that information was out there, as I had read it nearly 10 years ago, but couldn't find it since.

One of the last pieces to the puzzle.
 

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