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What have you done to improve traction?

Discussion in 'Chassis / Drivetrain / Suspension / Wheels' started by Anubis, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:24 AM.

  1. Anubis

    Anubis Royal Smart Person

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    Just like the title states...What mods have you made to your car to improve traction? I took the 442 out for a short ride yesterday and came to the realization that my new to me LS swap with over 400 hp at the rear wheel is a problem. It is downright scary to go WOT at cruising speed. I'm sure I am not the first to have this problem. To keep the stock look, 245R 60R 15's is the biggest street tire I am willing to use on the rear. I am considering relocating the battery and looking at front sway bar mods for better weight transfer. I have Nitto drag radials on a spare set of rims for track day but don't want to run those on the street. What did you do?
     
  2. pontiacgp

    pontiacgp Rocket Powered Basset Hound

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    There is a pedal under your right foot that permits you to modulate acceleration....:D
     
  3. online170

    online170 G-Body Guru

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    On the street is a complete shit show because you are never in control of the surface. There will always be fine sand and dust around. The biggest thing you can do for improvement is tires! You can see if you can find a softer compound tire i your size acceptability, but 245 is the smallest id ever want to go. You should also allow yourself to use 255 incase there is a compound available that you want. 10mm is not noticeable.

    Im not sure what you are doing (driving style) whether straight or turns where it gets scary, but its possible you need new shocks and a suspension refresh. In my clapped out malibu suspension, that bottoms out and bump steers, needs alot of correction at WOT or gentle fun manoevres. Its very unpredictable. My buddy's regal with a hotchkis TVS and bilstein shocks is on the stiffer side, and although it has no traction also it is VERY controlled and very predictable. You can hold a nice long slide with some decent angle in that car at high speed and not get afraid. Unlike the malibu which will scare you at 40mph.


    All this to say, you can only get so much traction on the street. Start with tires. Then do the typical dragrace geometry mods which load the tires from axle rotation, ie: LCA relocation brackets, antiroll bar, etc.. Then concentrate on the FRONT suspension to make the car more stable and stiffer. Basically new shocks, springs, steering components etc... Your problem here is the car is scary, and that the car doesnt hook. But traction is not solvable without electronics or slicks. So traction shouldn't be the focus, stability should be.
     
  4. Anubis

    Anubis Royal Smart Person

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    Thanks for all replies. I should have noted that "scary" in my book is relative. The ability to break the tires loose at 55 mph is scary to me. The suspension is fresh with all new poly body mounts, bushings, high rate springs, Bilstein shocks, Helwig sway bars, frame reinforcements, new control arms and steering linkage, etc etc. When spinning it is predictable as long as the road surface doesn't change. Question, with near factory ride height is there any value in LCA relocation brackets? I am using UMI roto joint LCA's
     
  5. online170

    online170 G-Body Guru

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    OK thats perfect. You are like 90% there. Most times its the inexperienced guys that shoehorn 300% more power under the hood and then have no funds to make the rest of the car stand up to it and then they wonder why its undriveable, so that battle is won for you.

    Yes there is absolutely value in LCA brackets and other geometry correcting parts like upper front control arms (which are more for bump steer and corners). Battery relocation and the like is stuff from the 70's and IMHO doesnt work. Not at the level you are trying to achieve. It just creates more headaches with trying to run wires and venting the battery properly, etc... The LCA will have many times more of an impact at this point.

    What i would suggest is you find yourself a "closed course" and video yourself launching the car a few times from different angles. A properly set up suspension will raise the car (the whole car) and plant the tires into the ground. If your LCA in the rear (from the car to the axle) is downwards in slope, thats what should happen. If its up in slope, you will have wheel hop. A relocation bracket will correct, or amplify that behaviour. I dont think my buddy's regal has them, it has a ford 9inch.

    I think the stuff that might be causing you issue comes down to fine tuning. Angles, and adjustable shocks kind of stuff that is beyond my paygrade. I think your issue might just be tires to be honest.

    What are you running? You need a super soft compound, the stuff that only lasts a summer. Luckily those tires are usually the cheaper ones.

    Beyond that, i would defer to PontiacGP's advice.
     
  6. online170

    online170 G-Body Guru

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  7. Bar50

    Bar50 G-Body Guru

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    4* down pinion angle.

    The reason his buddy with a 9 inch doesn't need the geometry correction device is because the upper control arms have been raidea an inch or more due to the shape of the housing. Works the same way as lowering the bottom of the rear control arm to modify or alter the instant center.

    Welcome to the real muscle car world. You should strongly consider a summer tire to increase traction.

    Sway bars on both ends?

    Body bushings?

    GNX extra body bushings/snubbers?

    Might consider looking at a tune that limits timing to the effective edge of your given traction.

    The braces that triangulate the front of the rear control arm mounting points helps a bunch.

    Also might check how your poly bushings were installed...like torqued the bolts down to a set value versus down to touching but not binding...?

    What are you looking for?
     
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  8. online170

    online170 G-Body Guru

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    I agree with Bar50, you need tires.

    I watched your youtube videos. The car looks "tight". You have some rear squatting that could be tuned with your 4links if they were adjustable but honestly its not bad, i think your suspension is OK.

    But the car shouldnt get so squirly like it does in that video of you in the car. It just goes hard left and you are going like 60* from straight. Thats pretty scary alright. I think its those BFG's, they are very hard tires.

    Here is a video of my regal. I just mat the gas, and it more or less goes straight, with only minor corrections needed.I have no suspension mods. No sway bars at all, ford 9", drag shocks up front and i think KYB's in the back. Original stock springs, and poly bushings that are probably 15 years old now.So your car should do much better.
    Watch at 0:27 sec and also at 2:30 .

     
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  9. lilbowtie

    lilbowtie Royal Smart Person

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    Nice problem to have; can't agree more with the advice given above. As online170 said the car looks tight. The only thing I can add is make sure the suspension is free and moving. I had a problem where my rear sway bushing stopped the movement of the rear and created traction problems
     
  10. Anubis

    Anubis Royal Smart Person

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    Thanks for the help guys. The car IS tight and handles very well. I would hate to lose cornering ability for the sake of traction. I have a Hellwig bar on the back and can experiment with the settings on that. It's highly unlikely I would remove the front sway bar like some guys do though. I am going to recheck the torque on the UCA / LCA bolts. Maybe some adjustable drag shocks are also in order....
     
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