A/C Retrofit

[Kutdoctor2k11]

Has anyone ever converted their cutlass from the dying r12 to the new r134a? How it work out and how much did it run u my mechanic says i need a whole new r134 ac system that runs about 1200 is this true or is there a cheaper route i can try first

 

[joeairforce]

Good gosh! :shock:

Find a new mechanic...... Only thing that needs to be done to convert it is; vac out all the old stuff, get as much of the old oil out as you can, possibly replace the drier, fill with correct amount of new oil, vac system to check for leaks, and fill it with the new stuff.....

Haven't done it to my Cutlass, but I did convert my Suburban..... and all I did to that was vac the system down (it was already empty most likely due to a leak), added the new kind of oil and charged it up..... Works fine, blows nice and cold..... Only cost me the cost of the R-134 cans and oil since I did it myself....

 

[tc1959]

I have done automotive AC for a long time . It has been my experience that quickie cans of stuff don't work very well, for very long. The compressors always grind themselves up and they all leak,134-A is able to seep past R-12 seals and ,hose.
Most of our cars were designed for R-12, They have single barrier hoses, smaller condensers, different desiccant in the dryer/accumulator, and use 5w5 mineral oil.
134-A systems use different seals and hose. The compressors have heaver valves and swash plates.They use a bigger condenser. and run at higher pressures, It also requires a synthetic oil called PAG oil.
To do a proper AC conversion will run over $1000 to $1500 .
I do about fifteen a month and that's just about right on . (fords & some foreign cars are even more )
I kept R-12 on my own car when I changed over to a serpentine drive system.
There is no such thing as a magic fix in a can that will perform like a properly done conversion.

 

[AlanB]

There is no doubt that tc1959's suggestion is by far the best approach and will guarantee you a high performing r-134 system. If I owned a shop that is how I would want to convert my customers' cars.

But, there are many differing opinions on this topic and lots of conflicting information out there. At the end of the day you need to consider your budget, risk tolerance, and technical abilities to decide what works for you. I have a prior post on this topic with some additional links to information here: http://www.gbodyforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21638

Here are the links listed in the prior post:

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/technicians/retrguid.html

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/airconditioning/R12toR134a.html

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ge...19330-r-12-r-134a-conversion-turbo-buick.html

 

[87 442 manitoba]

U just need a new compressor

 

[breeaad]

I have done automotive AC for a long time . It has been my experience that quickie cans of stuff don't work very well, for very long. The compressors always grind themselves up and they all leak,134-A is able to seep past R-12 seals and ,hose.
Most of our cars were designed for R-12, They have single barrier hoses, smaller condensers, different desiccant in the dryer/accumulator, and use 5w5 mineral oil.
134-A systems use different seals and hose. The compressors have heaver valves and swash plates.They use a bigger condenser. and run at higher pressures, It also requires a synthetic oil called PAG oil.
To do a proper AC conversion will run over $1000 to $1500 .
I do about fifteen a month and that's just about right on . (fords & some foreign cars are even more )
I kept R-12 on my own car when I changed over to a serpentine drive system.
There is no such thing as a magic fix in a can that will perform like a properly done conversion.

I am sure you are correct on most of your statements, but I will say this: R134 leaks past the correct seals much faster than R12 due to the molecular make-up. When I went through licensing for AC service back in 1997, I was told that R134 systems would need to be recharged every 2-3 years. My experience says that is about right. But R12 could go a decade.
I have used R12 and 134, I have mixed them, and I have used generics (be-cool). I have never had a compressor failure. My olds has had be-cool in it for 15 years on the factory compressor and still no issues. So why spend 1000-1500 on a complete swap? I mean, if the refridgerant trashed the entire system that would be the repair bill. So why not chance it? I do draw the line at propane, however.

 

[tc1959]

I have done automotive AC for a long time . It has been my experience that quickie cans of stuff don't work very well, for very long. The compressors always grind themselves up and they all leak,134-A is able to seep past R-12 seals and ,hose.
Most of our cars were designed for R-12, They have single barrier hoses, smaller condensers, different desiccant in the dryer/accumulator, and use 5w5 mineral oil.
134-A systems use different seals and hose. The compressors have heaver valves and swash plates.They use a bigger condenser. and run at higher pressures, It also requires a synthetic oil called PAG oil.
To do a proper AC conversion will run over $1000 to $1500 .
I do about fifteen a month and that's just about right on . (fords & some foreign cars are even more )
I kept R-12 on my own car when I changed over to a serpentine drive system.
There is no such thing as a magic fix in a can that will perform like a properly done conversion.

I am sure you are correct on most of your statements, but I will say this: R134 leaks past the correct seals much faster than R12 due to the molecular make-up. When I went through licensing for AC service back in 1997, I was told that R134 systems would need to be recharged every 2-3 years. My experience says that is about right. But R12 could go a decade.
I have used R12 and 134, I have mixed them, and I have used generics (be-cool). I have never had a compressor failure. My olds has had be-cool in it for 15 years on the factory compressor and still no issues. So why spend 1000-1500 on a complete swap? I mean, if the refrigerant trashed the entire system that would be the repair bill. So why not chance it? I do draw the line at propane, however.

Well you are the lucky one, Here in Arizona The system has to be 100% to work.
When It's 119 in the shade and 80% humidity Your Be-cool just won't cut the mustard, it just won't transport the lubricant throughout the system. .
You have not seen any compressors chew them selves up, then you haven't been doing AC repair very long.
Out here high side pressures on a proper R-12 or 134 A system can exceed 375-450 lbs ,causing ring and valve failure in any compressor. In most GM cars this plugs the orifice tube.
If you check the EPA web site on auto AC retrofitting , They don't even recognise Be-cool . as a viable "drop in replacement
So I wish you all the best and I hope you learn more about what you are talking about , Maybe You can take some courses at night school on basic physics and basic refrigeration theory.
I am attaching a picture of a good orifice tube ,with a plugged tube covered with the gut's of a compressor from a "cheapo retro-fit"

 

[MR442]

I agree also for best performance put new stuff on .

But I Drive 30000 a year and always get older cars/truck to drive to work every one has had off the shelf conversion . I did myself over last 15 years . We r talking 20 plus rides and lots o miles. Some last a year with out needing recharge some more . But $30 a year is better than $1500 . Never had issues had a 8's truck with 150000 mile that drove for another 140000 miles I ran the cheap stuff in for 8 years .
Never replaced a pump yet .

And if I do well it would have to be replaced if I converted it anyway .

 

[Kutdoctor2k11]

Thanks everyone for your opinion ALL is appreciated just wanted to make sure i had this right however so i can go the cheap route have ac and risk it failing on me in as few as a couple months or the expensive "correct" and get a completely new r134a a/c system and be confident that it will last me for years to come. Budget is never a problem as long as i save for it just wonder if weeks and weeks of saving is worth it when some think that the cheaper route is just as effective

 

[tc1959]

Thanks everyone for your opinion ALL is appreciated just wanted to make sure i had this right however so i can go the cheap route have ac and risk it failing on me in as few as a couple months or the expensive "correct" and get a completely new r134a a/c system and be confident that it will last me for years to come. Budget is never a problem as long as i save for it just wonder if weeks and weeks of saving is worth it when some think that the cheaper route is just as effective

"Well you can never afford to do it right, But you can always afford to do it over" 8)