Getting started.

[Buford T. JuSStice]

Tried doing a forum search for "200-4R" and nothing came up. Hard to believe there aren't any other posts about them, so please forgive me if there are, at least I gave the search bar a shot. :lol:

I'm buying a 200-4R either on E-Bay or Craigslist and going to rebuild it for my Buick with a California Performance Transmissions "Super" rebuild kit, and maybe their Deep Cast Aluminum Pan (mostly because it has a drain plug, and holds 2 extra quarts of oil). I might buy some other parts as well if money allows, but the Pontiac motor I plan on rebuilding and swapping in will probably be around 400 horsepower, 450 ft-lbs torque. (455 with 98cc D-Port heads, Edelbrock intake, Q-Jet, approx. 9.2:1 static compression)

Does anybody have any experience or advice with these as far as putting one in place of a TH350? What else will I need to make it work? I know it SHOULD go right in since it's the same size, and has basically the same mounting points as a short tail TH350 which is in my Buick right now, but will I need to do anything to the cross-member, shift linkage, shifter, instrument cluster? Anybody know the best place to get the little stuff? It's the fine details that most newbies like me overlook, so I figure why not ask. Also, are there any other parts aside from the rebuild kit that CPT offers that you would suggest as being "must haves" or are there any other companies that you would suggest over CPT?

 

[Intragration]

I don't know the answer to your questions, but try a search on 2004R instead of 200-4R.

I do know that while the short tail TH350 and 2004R are very nearly the same length, the mount on the 2004R is 6 3/8" further back.

 

[Buford T. JuSStice]

Hah, what a difference that little "-" can make. :lol:

Thanks for the tip. Also, I really appreciate how a lot of the threads all reference the DRW Transmission page on the 200-4R. I've read that before and have it in my book marks as a reference along with many other pages. Most of my questions were answered looking through just the first few threads. All I need to really figure out now are all the little mundane details like the shift selector panel where it shows "P R N D L1 L2" so it'll have the "OD" on there as well, and finding out if I need to do anything to the column shifter.

Basically I will probably need to get the heat treated stator support, heavy duty input drum, input shaft, a new 1-2 band since the rebuild kit doesn't come with it, and maybe the billet super servo, billet band anchor, and 10-Vane pump. The only thing I wish they had were all-metal sprags since I believe the 2004R has a crappy plastic one, and I didn't see it mentioned in the description of the rebuild kit. I wish they had the pump slide and pressure regulator springs separately since they too don't seem to be mentioned in the rebuild kit, but specifically mention them in all of their fully built transmissions. Time to write them an E-Mail asking about that. (I got this from reading more into the Art Carr website, might as well mention it here in case somebody searches for this stuff in the future). Art Carr seems to also be very against the idea of a lock-up torque converter, though I don't think I agree there. It's nice to have on the highway so you don't lose RPM on TC slippage.

Another part I may start looking into is from another company altogether. Extreme Automatics builds BRC Valve Bodies that are basically the same as the Grand Nationals with some minor improvements (comes with the valve body, spacer plate, governor, teflon check balls, and instructions). Only drawback is price. At $295, with the addition of the BR servo at $75, it starts getting into the territory of being more cost effective to simply buy a Stage 2 Transmission from EA for $1995, or a "Super" from CPT for $1899 and consider extra money that I spend for it as a Peace of Mind tax. Then again, I could always look at it as saving some extra money that I can put into something else, while building a bullet-proof OD Transmission using premium parts from two different top of the line companies. I'll have to determine what I absolutely need, and what I've just been tricked into thinking I need from reading the product descriptions. :lol:

Costs:
200-4R - (At most) $150
"Super" rebuild kit - $250
Heat treated input drum - $150
CPT "Hi-Pro" 1-2 band - $33
Heat treated stator support - $63
Heat treated input shaft - $270
Total - (approx.) $916

Optionals:
Billet Super Servo - $170
Billet Band Anchor - $40
EA Valve Body - $295
BR Servo - $75
CPT 10 Vane Pump - $72
Total - (approx.) $1568

 

[DRIVEN]

I didn't see a new higher stall torque convertor on your list. Did I miss it? That will get you really close to the carryout unit price. The "peace of mind" tax definitely has value. There is a certain amount of value in the pride of doing it yourself too but I don't think a 200-4R is a great starter transmission. I've built Powerglides, TH350s, TH400s, 700-R4s buy not a 200-4R yet. In my (somewhat limited) experience, a standard rebuild, mild shift kit, and "RV" type converter in the 2200 range makes for a pretty reliable street package. I know it may be oversimplifying it but; keep the heat down by reducing slippage. A firm (not abusive) shift and a good cooler will extend life noticeably. I'm sure you've found from your research that the non-performance versions shift pretty early. Shift kits affect firmness but not RPM of a shift. You'll need to address the governor to correct this. You can either get a GN governor or modify springs and weights on the non-performance one.
I'm not sure how long a stock unit with the above modifications will last behind a 455 under normal driving conditions but I probably wouldn't bring it to the track without spending some coin on hard parts. That's where the $2000 shop-built packages really shine.

 

[Buford T. JuSStice]

I didn't see a new higher stall torque convertor on your list. Did I miss it? That will get you really close to the carryout unit price. The "peace of mind" tax definitely has value. There is a certain amount of value in the pride of doing it yourself too but I don't think a 200-4R is a great starter transmission. I've built Powerglides, TH350s, TH400s, 700-R4s buy not a 200-4R yet. In my (somewhat limited) experience, a standard rebuild, mild shift kit, and "RV" type converter in the 2200 range makes for a pretty reliable street package. I know it may be oversimplifying it but; keep the heat down by reducing slippage. A firm (not abusive) shift and a good cooler will extend life noticeably. I'm sure you've found from your research that the non-performance versions shift pretty early. Shift kits affect firmness but not RPM of a shift. You'll need to address the governor to correct this. You can either get a GN governor or modify springs and weights on the non-performance one.
I'm not sure how long a stock unit with the above modifications will last behind a 455 under normal driving conditions but I probably wouldn't bring it to the track without spending some coin on hard parts. That's where the $2000 shop-built packages really shine.

The Exteme Transmissions Valve Body package comes with a GN type governor, and for stall converter I was planning to use something fairly low since the motor won't have a very aggressive cam. XE268H Comp Cams was one of the cams I was looking at, and it did not recommend using a higher RPM stall converter. Not that I won't consider one of course, but I may get a unit from another company other than CPT since their TC's are very expensive, and are mostly meant for race applications whereas mine is meant to be a daily driver. (I know, I must sound like a lunatic thinking of using a mild built 455 as a daily driver)

As for the experience issue, I won't be rebuilding it alone. My teacher at the school I go to used to rebuild transmissions for 20+ years and said he would help me out rebuilding it. Also, while it does get expensive once I start delving into billet parts and valve bodies, but I have to determine still whether or not I even need all of those things since my car won't be seeing the strip all that often. It's being built as a daily driver with a mild street engine. If I need, I can always get the engine dyno'd after it's built, and use the data from that to determine what RPM stall converter will fit the bill the best.

 

[DRIVEN]

I think a mild cam makes perfect sense for a daily driver. Sounds like you've got a good guide too. I'm not necessarily endorsing these guys because I've never actually dealt with them but they seem to have quite a few 200-4R parts/kits and the prices are reasonable. I plan on buying parts from them since they're in my area when the time comes. Might be worth giving them your specs and see if they have any suggestions.
http://www.oregonperformancetransmissio ... Code=2004R
also here:
http://stores.ebay.com/Oregon-Performan ... 513&_pgn=1
Keep us posted on your build and results.

 

[Buford T. JuSStice]

Crap! While I was waiting for a reply from a seller on Ebay for a 2004R on a shipping quote and some extra pictures of the unit, somebody else bought it. 75 dollars for one out of a light front-end collision. Oh well... I guess I can't blame myself for wanting to be a little extra cautious. Well, buying a built transmission is back on the table if I can't find one that cheap. Time to start checking the local junk yards!

 

[Buford T. JuSStice]

Oh, some good luck! Somebody on the board is selling one! (Hopes he's asking a fair price) :lol: