Ok here is the deal. I just picked up this 79 monte carlo, it has been sitting in my friends shop out of the weather since 1991. He purchased this car in 1984 and it was a daily driver until this time. The car looked decent upon visual inspection underneath, HOWEVER this car was undercoated sometime early in its life and what I am finding has completely shocked me. This car has alot of rust issues. After pulling up the carpet I found alot of soft areas in the floor that I was able to poke through with a screwdriver so it needs at least the passanger side floorpan and inner rocker panel. The drivers side may be able to be saved, I'm not sure about that yet though. The frame has some rot starting on the rear frame rails and a couple of areas at the weld hems I was able to poke a small hole through, not to many areas that soft though. There is extensive flaking throughout the entire rear frame section. Long story short all of this was hiding under the undercoating and it was not until I was prompted to start poking around after finding the rusty floors that I discovered all of this. What do you guys think, I paid good money for this car and want to restore it, but I am not made of money either and all this repair can get quite costly. Any ideas on what I can do would be appreciated. I have looked for donor frames in my area of florida and have not found any as of yet, so repair may be the only way this can happen. Any ideas would be greatly apprciated. Thanks.
HELP!!!! Seeing some frame rot
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1) Check your local Craigs List and see if you find someone parting out a G-Body that has a decent frame, I have seen several frames for sale in the past year. Any 78-88 G-Body 2dr frame will work. Maybe a 4 door will work also, but not a wagon or El Camino.
2) Or search this forum for Rear Frame. You should find some postings about a guy out of Canada who makes replacements for the rear frame rails. A lot of people here have had success with them.
Good Luck
2) Or search this forum for Rear Frame. You should find some postings about a guy out of Canada who makes replacements for the rear frame rails. A lot of people here have had success with them.
Good Luck
Will they interchange all the way up to 88? I know there are some differances with the way the transmisison mounts on 81-88 due to frame extensions, and they consider 78-80 third generation and 81-88 fourth generation. This information would be very helpful as I see fourth gens out at the local u-pul it yard all the time. Also could I use a regal or cutlass frame?
Thanks
Thanks
I don't know what you consider "good" money, but I might take up the issue with the seller if you spent more than than about $2500 for the car, as the rot in the frame or any type of repair diminishes the value of the car, even if you take the time and money to restore it. Frame damage puts these cars in to the "low" end of their book value.
When looking at these cars one tell-tale sign if they have any rear frame rot is to look at the oval shaped hole in the frame about 13" back from where the bumper attaches. This should look like a solid piece of metal inside. If it resembles corrugated cardboard, the frame is probably rotted inside. Many people try to cover up the frame rot on these cars with undercoating, because is is so common especially on northeastern cars.
You have a few options. If you want to restore the car to a high level of quality, there is as mentioned a guy in Canada who sells weld in replacement sections. The kit is around $200, and requires some good cutting and welding skills. The floor pans are a common sheet metal repair.
If that is too expensive and elaborate, you can just cut the rotted frame areas out and clean up the holes, and weld on some 1/8" thick pieces of steel to cover the rot holes. This is more a cosmetic than structural repair, but the upper sections of the frame by the body don't usually rot and will still hold the weight just fine. If you then keep it away from road salt (which caused the rot in the first place) it won't usually rot any more extensively. This was the "common" way shops repaired these in the past.
Last, if it's all too involved and you don't want to put the time and money in to a car with frame damage, you can cut your losses and resell it. Just something to consider as repairing the frame is not something that will generally add any value to the car from a collector's perspective.
I was burned by the very first one of these cars I bought many years ago, a '78 Cutlass that ended up having seriously rotted frame rails, with only 40k miles on the odometer. I opted to just use it as a second car for a few years and sold it.
-UT-
When looking at these cars one tell-tale sign if they have any rear frame rot is to look at the oval shaped hole in the frame about 13" back from where the bumper attaches. This should look like a solid piece of metal inside. If it resembles corrugated cardboard, the frame is probably rotted inside. Many people try to cover up the frame rot on these cars with undercoating, because is is so common especially on northeastern cars.
You have a few options. If you want to restore the car to a high level of quality, there is as mentioned a guy in Canada who sells weld in replacement sections. The kit is around $200, and requires some good cutting and welding skills. The floor pans are a common sheet metal repair.
If that is too expensive and elaborate, you can just cut the rotted frame areas out and clean up the holes, and weld on some 1/8" thick pieces of steel to cover the rot holes. This is more a cosmetic than structural repair, but the upper sections of the frame by the body don't usually rot and will still hold the weight just fine. If you then keep it away from road salt (which caused the rot in the first place) it won't usually rot any more extensively. This was the "common" way shops repaired these in the past.
Last, if it's all too involved and you don't want to put the time and money in to a car with frame damage, you can cut your losses and resell it. Just something to consider as repairing the frame is not something that will generally add any value to the car from a collector's perspective.
I was burned by the very first one of these cars I bought many years ago, a '78 Cutlass that ended up having seriously rotted frame rails, with only 40k miles on the odometer. I opted to just use it as a second car for a few years and sold it.
-UT-
Here are the rails mentioned above:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/conradlozier/
...and here is Conrad installing a set on my Monte a few years back:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/291978/7
http://www3.sympatico.ca/conradlozier/
...and here is Conrad installing a set on my Monte a few years back:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/291978/7
Unfortunately, the rear rail rot is very common on G bodies--especially those that have lived up north. I pulled the body off the frame of my car back in 1996, when it was 11 years old, and had spent it's life in Florida. I saw the beginnings of this issue on my car as the mounting holes for the body were rusting thin. What I did was to remove the rust, paint the rails, and then coat them with grease from the end of the wheel wells to the bumpers. This I figured would promote encrustation with sand and dirt, keeping the grease there and preventing further rust. I also remember one late 70's Cutlass in my neighborhood when I was a kid that had it's bumper falling down due to rust!!! It was an otherwise solid car too.
For a frame, I believe the 4 door cars used the same frame as a 2 door, so you may be able to find a cheap 4 door as a parts car and take the frame.
For a frame, I believe the 4 door cars used the same frame as a 2 door, so you may be able to find a cheap 4 door as a parts car and take the frame.
The best thing you can do to prevent rust on the rear rails is plug the body mount holes that are behind the rear tires. I used to conduit plugs once the new rails were installed. It's something GM should have done from the factory - having those holes directly behind the tires and wide open like that was a horrible design.
85_SS said:
GM did do that from the factory. Problem is they fell out on a lot of them.
My malibu still has them.
R/T kota said:
You sure it's factory? I've never seen or heard of a car having them from the factory.
85_SS said:
Yep.
Seen it on several different G bodies over the years.
If I remember to bring my camera next time I go to the shop, Ill take pics.
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