Turbine Engined Cars

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Anyone else here know much about the Chrysler Turbine car program? I was doing a little reading about them and they produce pretty much no hydrocarbon or CO2 emissions (but do produce a lot of NOX), and can run on just about any fuel( Gasoline, Kerosene, diesel, jet fuel, etc). According to one site I read, the gov't made them stop research as a part of their bailout agreement of 1980. In 1963 they were getting 17mpg, which I think is pretty good for that time. Chrysler even built 55 cars that were given to 203 families for a 3 month long test drive to durability test the idea. Some cars received quite a few miles on them before the program was over. Anyhow, here's a site I found with a lot of info on it, including Chrysler technical papers in PDF format. It does not flow well, but it has a lot when you take the time to work with it.

http://www.turbinecar.com/top.swf

I personally think the turbine concept would be an awesome way to power an electric powertrain by using it to drive a generator instead of a transmission, like a diesel locomotive does.

 

[Geesie]

The biggest problems with gas turbine propulsion:
- They are efficient at cruise speed but horrible outside that range, especially at idle.
- They produce incredibly hot exhaust gasses

 

[megaladon6]

turbines are nothing new. GM worked with them in the 50's (i believe they were the first firebirds, made by zora dunstov). they also did a corvette with a turine and all wheel drive. jay leno just took delivery last year on a corvette framed car with a turbine engine to go with his bike. with a good trans (CVT) you can keep the RPM's up for off the line power and as stated they run on anything. NOX is becoming less of a problem due to finer fuel control and dispersion. remember, a turbine works much the same as a diesel, it uses the compressor stages to compress and superheat the air then injects the fuel.

 

[twisted]

that was a good article,

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

The lack of finite throttle control and poor idle quality could be solved by not having it directly connected to the wheels. If instead it charged a bank of batteries that then provided current to power wheel motors (which would be throttled by a speed controller), you would solve most of the downsides. I think it has the potential to be a very efficient propulsion source for the future, with reliability as a byproduct of the inherent low-maintenance of the design. Heck, you could even use a purely electromagnetic power steering rack and eliminate the need for hydraulic assist. It would also make for an inexpensive AWD system because of the reduction in gear driven parts. You could also make a hybrid of solar and turbine by using cheap, lightweight CIGS solar panels in the roof, hood and trunk lid area that would add constant charging capability and the ability to run at a constant speed but not always with the requirement of the engine to propel the car.

I just think it is a shame that research seems to have stopped on this concept. It could be a better alternative to the hydrogen pipe dream due to it's ability to run off almost anything.

 

[megaladon6]

Heck, you could even use a purely electromagnetic power steering rack

NO!!!! you could, but it's a crappy *ss idea. just think about it, when the computer controlling the steering goes buggy (like when the late 90's vw decide to roll down the window for no reason) the car will do a 90* turn at 90mph. or when you hit a puddle and something shorts/grounds out. they already have electronic steering out and i do not trust it. same thing with electronic braking, you have no backup or safety system. (the e-brakes are also electronic) if it has a physical connection, that's fine. even airplanes with full electronic controls have a mechanical back up, just in case.

a turbine-electric hybrid would work great on busses and the like. alot of ships are using that concept too.

one fun thing about hydrogen, they say that the fuel tanks will have enough structural intrgrity for an accident. then why did a H2 tanker have a relatively minir accident near me in connecticut and they had to evacuate 5000 homes? the big double walled, reinforced tanker didn't hold. plus, i haven't heard anyone address the problem with the pressure increase due to your car being in the hot sun all day. you can't just vent to the outside air.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Yeah, I can't wait to drive my new Toyota Hindenburg.... Anything that can go wrong will eventually do so. It's just the way things are when something is out there for mass consumption.

 

[archerm3]

I had done some research on this concept in college, combining the turbine with some sort of hybrid drivetrain to take advantage of the turbine's need to operate at constant speed. Still several practical problems.

1. Extreme cost of turbine engines
2. Noise
3. Sensitive starting procedures
4. Poor throttle control

There still may be possibilities in the future if the cost and noise problems are fixed as technology progresses.

 

[archerm3]

turbines are nothing new. GM worked with them in the 50's (i believe they were the first firebirds, made by zora dunstov). they also did a corvette with a turine and all wheel drive. jay leno just took delivery last year on a corvette framed car with a turbine engine to go with his bike. with a good trans (CVT) you can keep the RPM's up for off the line power and as stated they run on anything. NOX is becoming less of a problem due to finer fuel control and dispersion. remember, a turbine works much the same as a diesel, it uses the compressor stages to compress and superheat the air then injects the fuel.

Turbines work by flame propogation, not by compression of the fuel. The term "flameout" refers to how turbine engines fail. Turbines must have an ignitor or spark plug to start.

 

[megaladon6]

my mistake. i was writing about true multi-stage jet turbines that produce thrust, not HP/torque. i didn't mean to say that no spark is necessary at all, but most of the thrust/power is derived from the gas compression.