Turbo Gen II or III 3800 Swap

[Crazy80Bu]

Hi All,

First post on the board, been looking around a bit...

I have an '80 Malibu Classic w/ 38k miles. Has a 229/auto, car is totally stock, all original. I would like to do something different with it, rather than dropping in a small block. I was thinking an LSx or possibly big block, but I started thinking about the 3800 series engines. I have a 98 GTP that has been extremely reliable, and is impressively quick for what it is.

Anyway, what I was thinking was a 3800 swap of some type, FI and all. I know a Grand National swap might make sense, but there are sooo many GenII/III engines out there. I know most of them are FWD, which I am not sure if the blocks had mounts cast for both FWD and RWD (Camaro/Firebird) or not. Other questions I have are related to how much the stock block can handle, etc. A supercharged swap crossed my mind, but the way the intake is setup (coming in the rear of the block) seems like it might be "interesting" to get things to fit against the firewall. That is why I am thinking turbo.

Has anyone done such a swap?

Thanks!

 

[dan2286]

There was someone on here who did the Series II supercharged swap in his Cutlass and it turned out great. I don't know if he visits here any more though. I believe the first thing you need is the Camaro 3800 block. You can run supercharged, but the firewall has to be modified. Everything from the FWD engine would bolt right onto the Camaro/F-body block. I believe for turbo, you would just use the complete F-body V-6 and go from there. I forget what to do for a trans, maybe use the Camaro one or get an adapter and use an older trans.

Good luck with the swap, it should be fun when finished. It's always nice when people think outside of the box and use something other than a SBC :lol:

I am assuming you know all of the companies that deal with 3800 performance, but if you don't, let me know and I will get some links.

 

[joe_padavano]

There was someone on here who did the Series II supercharged swap in his Cutlass and it turned out great. I don't know if he visits here any more though. I believe the first thing you need is the Camaro 3800 block. You can run supercharged, but the firewall has to be modified. Everything from the FWD engine would bolt right onto the Camaro/F-body block. I believe for turbo, you would just use the complete F-body V-6 and go from there. I forget what to do for a trans, maybe use the Camaro one or get an adapter and use an older trans.

Good luck with the swap, it should be fun when finished. It's always nice when people think outside of the box and use something other than a SBC :lol:

I am assuming you know all of the companies that deal with 3800 performance, but if you don't, let me know and I will get some links.

The Series II 3800 blocks are all the same. The F-body applications used the FWD block with the 60 degree metric bellhousing. You need an F-body trans (or the 700R4 from an S-10) to install a Series II in a RWD car. The 3800SC has been swapped into a number of RWD cars using this method. The biggest problem is the throttle body, which hangs off the back of the blower, directly over the bellhousing. This is not a problem with a transverse mount FWD setup, but it requires a large hole in the firewall on a G-body (which is what was done on that Olds mentioned above). Alternately, at least one person has used the M90 blower from a Ford with the elbow that brings the throttle body around to the side.

 

[Crazy80Bu]

Thanks guys. Okay, so the blocks are all the same that is good to know.

For the transmission I was thinking the F-body used the 4L60, correct? How much can this take if built properly? Can the 4L80 guts be transplated, or is it a different animal?

I was aware of the 60 bellhousing, which is a pain, but should not be that big of a deal.

Like mentioned earlier, the supercharged version had different heads (at least I think) with relocated injectors to fit the blower. It seems like this version might be a good starting point, and just swap the blower for the standard 3.8 intake from an F-body. I dunno, many ways to handle this I assume.

Regarless, there will be no firewall cutting on this car, so the supercharged deal is out, which is sad, but oh well. I'll save it for the GTP I guess. 🙂

Anyone know how much a stock Series II block (or III) can handle?

Also, this is purely investigation at this point. I need to finish up my big block 68 Dart first.

Thanks.

 

[dan2286]

I believe this one uses the stock block, I am not sure about the rotating assembly though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjwM-Bzdmm4

Thanks Joe, I did not know the FWD and RWD blocks are the same.

One more thing I forgot to mention. The s/c engine uses lower compression pistons. You will probably want the supercharged short block to keep the compression down and I would think you could just use the heads/intake off of the RWD engine.

 

[Crazy80Bu]

Thanks, Dan.

Why could I not use the heads from the supercharged engine, and just swap the intake? Is the intake angle different for the SC engine?

Also, did GM revise the mounts at any point during the 3800s life? For instance, if I want to get engine mounts, can I just buy them as if the car had the 3.8 Buick in 1980, or will I need to fab the mounts for the newer 3800 series engine?

Also, fuel delivery... I am guessing the only option I have is an electric pump to deal with the FI. Curious, are the Chevy/Buick mechanical pumps the same?

I am aware of www.3800performance.com. There is another one, but I have lost track of it. Either way, if there are some sites that are up to date with the latest offerings, I would like to look at them.

I am thinking the stock rotating assembly is pretty weak. Likely cast pistons and crank. They might hold up okay though, just depends on how crazy I want to get...

Thanks!

 

[joe_padavano]

Thanks, Dan.

Why could I not use the heads from the supercharged engine, and just swap the intake? Is the intake angle different for the SC engine?

Also, did GM revise the mounts at any point during the 3800s life? For instance, if I want to get engine mounts, can I just buy them as if the car had the 3.8 Buick in 1980, or will I need to fab the mounts for the newer 3800 series engine?

Also, fuel delivery... I am guessing the only option I have is an electric pump to deal with the FI. Curious, are the Chevy/Buick mechanical pumps the same?

I am aware of www.3800performance.com. There is another one, but I have lost track of it. Either way, if there are some sites that are up to date with the latest offerings, I would like to look at them.

I am thinking the stock rotating assembly is pretty weak. Likely cast pistons and crank. They might hold up okay though, just depends on how crazy I want to get...

Thanks!

The Series II motor is a completely different block from the old 231s. I don't know if the mounts are the same or not. The EFI pump puts out 40+ PSI. Mechanical pumps put out 7 PSI or so. You can get an external inline pump for the EFI if you choose (MSD, Summit, etc).

 

[dan2286]

I believe the injectors are in the heads on the supercharged engine, and since there was no supercharged engine in the Camaro there is no intake that would work besides the FWD one.

http://www.intense-racing.com/

https://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/index.php

There is some more links on this page.

http://www2.turbov6camaro.com:443/home.htm

The first two sites are mainly for FWD, but the engine parts will work.

 

[Crazy80Bu]

Thanks, Dan.

Why could I not use the heads from the supercharged engine, and just swap the intake? Is the intake angle different for the SC engine?

Also, did GM revise the mounts at any point during the 3800s life? For instance, if I want to get engine mounts, can I just buy them as if the car had the 3.8 Buick in 1980, or will I need to fab the mounts for the newer 3800 series engine?

Also, fuel delivery... I am guessing the only option I have is an electric pump to deal with the FI. Curious, are the Chevy/Buick mechanical pumps the same?

I am aware of www.3800performance.com. There is another one, but I have lost track of it. Either way, if there are some sites that are up to date with the latest offerings, I would like to look at them.

I am thinking the stock rotating assembly is pretty weak. Likely cast pistons and crank. They might hold up okay though, just depends on how crazy I want to get...

Thanks!

The Series II motor is a completely different block from the old 231s. I don't know if the mounts are the same or not. The EFI pump puts out 40+ PSI. Mechanical pumps put out 7 PSI or so. You can get an external inline pump for the EFI if you choose (MSD, Summit, etc).

I understand. Still though, do the Series II blocks even have the provision for a mechanical pump, and if so, is the the same as the SBC/90 degree V6 pump?

 

[Crazy80Bu]

I believe the injectors are in the heads on the supercharged engine, and since there was no supercharged engine in the Camaro there is no intake that would work besides the FWD one.

http://www.intense-racing.com/

https://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/index.php

There is some more links on this page.

http://www2.turbov6camaro.com:443/home.htm

The first two sites are mainly for FWD, but the engine parts will work.

Does it matter that the injectors are in the heads? I have not looked at a N/A 3800 lately, are the injectors in the manifold on these engines? If so, I see your point. I wonder if the injectors in the manifold could be removed and the holes plugged somehow so that the supercharged head/injector setup could be used.

Thanks for the links!