83 Hurst 307 Engine and 200R4 Metric transmission value?

83hurst

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Jun 23, 2022
26
3
I removed my engine and transmission off my 1983 Olds Hurst, W40. I also have the dual Snorkel Air cleaner, and other OEM parts. (drive shaft, starter a few other parts.
I replaces with a 5.3 engine, trans and ECM, fans etc. for convenience. (I'm approaching retirement, and wanted reliable transportation. Not sure what price to ask for these parts, and would people travel to pick up, or would I have to offer shipping. The engine has about 77k miles, and I added a shift kit to the transmission a few years ago. The engine has an edelbrock manifold, but when i purchased in 2016, I had the car it shipped in from Florida, it had an olds intake in the trunk and has no carburetor.
How can I identify the Engine and trans are the real deal. I know for certain the Hurst is an actual Hurst, has all the markings, shifter, W40 Tag under the hood and a few other marking exclusive to Hurst. But I am not sure about the engine and transmission.
I would like the funds to help with the AC cost (I live in Texas), and it has some hail damage from 2018 I need to repair, New tires, Upgraded brakes Etc.

Not sure If I should keep the parts, or sell them to someone that will use for their G Body.
Any help/thoughts would help.
 
Oct 14, 2008
8,175
113
Melville,Saskatchewan
Keep them, if you have room. There is a stamp on the block below the #1 cylinder. That will tell you if it is numbers matching. The tag on the trans will also say OZ and have numbers stamped on it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

69hurstolds

Geezer
Supporting Member
Jan 2, 2006
6,623
113
JMO.

The parts are only really "valuable" to another Hurst owner, as the 307 is not known for being a powerhouse in any form. Your originality is gone, so the H/O isn't worth much as far as an H/O anymore, but it may be worth something to the LS crowd until they figure out that those ain't worth much either. The carburetor is part of the H/O history as only one carburetor number came on the H/O. Without it, that value is hurt a bit. There's always stupid people out there that will pay more for something than what it's worth, so there's always hope. Maybe there's someone "un-doing" an LS swap on their 83 H/O and looking for the correct engine/transmission. That's the guy who will think it's valuable.

The only thing you can point to externally on the H/O engine is that fat balancer and timing tab on the front as VIN Y engines have a thin weird looking balancer and timing tab. All LV2 307 engines of that era have 5A heads and cast iron exh manifolds, and are virtually built the same. The cam and valve springs are different internally, that's about it. The 83 H/O has an aluminum intake manifold, while some other versions of the Y engine got cast iron, but that may have only been for non-CCC cars. I don't recall. Never had an 83 so I can't say for sure. But that wasn't a "special" intake or anything like the old W-30/W-31 intakes of yesteryear (and those really weren't all that and a bag of chips either as far as flow). Also the VIN derivative stamped on the front driver corner of the block should match the last 6 numbers of the car's VIN, so that's proof it came with that car. If you have the original ECM and original calbrator (chip), toss that in with the engine/transmission too. That is a good part to have that's hard to find. Why not?

I would suggest if you have room to store the parts, do it. If you ever sell the car, the new owner may find them more valuable than an LS engine. Or not. If you're going to keep the car forever, and pass it down to the kids, grandkids, whatever as is, then you'll never need those parts and I'd move them along.

The transmission should have a tag on it on the passenger side. "OZ" code. It was inked on plus it is stamped into the tag along the bottom. It MAY even have a paper tag on top of the transmission somewhere, or a paint marking saying it's an OZ. Never know. The driver side ledge should also show the VIN derivative like the engine block with the last 6 numbers matching the VIN of the car. The fact the transmission needed a shift kit tells me that it probably needs a rebuild. OZ transmissions were calbrated to shift hard out of first gear to begin with. The valve body was the magic of those transmissions. You should see a painted stamp of "OZ" on the side of the valve body. Should have seen it when you were putting the shift kit in. But sometimes that gets taken off with cleaners and such, so...

And if you're pointing to an LS for reliability, the Olds 307, or any Olds V8 for that matter, can give you miles and miles of reliable service if cared for. Sounds to me like someone may not have taken care of it. Sticking an Edelbrock intake on it already tells me a lot. Probably had a stupid E-brock AVS on it too. Hope they didn't wipe out the CCC system while they were at it, but I've got a sneaky feeling it isn't there anymore. I think it's more of the fact nobody knows how to work on them anymore and then they just tear out the CCC and 200 miles of wire and replace it with the PCM and the 200 miles of wire for an LS.

I still don't understand why people don't take a regular Cutlass Supreme/Calais/Salon, paint it up like an H/O or 442, and put in whatever strange engine/transmission combo they like, and resist tearing up a "real deal" H/O or 442. It will usually cost about the same either way. I won't ever get that illogical move at all. I respect people's right to treat their cars how they wish and follow their own dreams, I just don't always understand it. Probably never will. Someone trying to tell me their car is a Hurst/Olds with an LS engine in it usually gets no response from me. It lost its desirability as soon as that LS engine went in. You want to go fast, great. Do what you have to. A 307 ain't going to do that. But you want a "real" Hurst/Olds? Then deal with the 307 the General gave you. The H/O is more than just a paint job and some decals to me.
 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: 6 users
Oct 14, 2008
8,175
113
Melville,Saskatchewan
Well said, yeah I forgot to mention the normal balancer that is exclusive to the 307 HO in those years, a simple way to identify. The Olds V8 was probably GM most reliable V8 from those years, at least till the early 80's. A proper rebuild on the CCC carb and upgraded engine gaskets like a neoprene rear main, rubber with rigid carrier valve cover gaskets and either cork/rubber or latex coated pan gaskets with rigid carrier all help keep leaks to a minimum. Keep everything including the exhaust, if original, no one makes a reproduction currently. A big part of the cars value and these cars have gone up a lot recently, is their special and unique parts which offered good performance for an early 80's car. Remove all that and what do you have? Not even a 8.5" rear on the 83 HO. Even us Olds guys usually pull the small bore 307 since the big bore 350 and 403 are a direct swap and are way easier to get modern car performance levels and still retain most factory parts. The 307 can make 450 HP with very deep pockets. You could put a 4" Billet stroker crank in that 307 for 370ish cubic inches. Of course a custom piston would be needed, along with aftermarket rods. The crank is setup for LS rods as ground from Cutlassefi. Good luck, it is only an H/O with the special H/O parts.
 

87National

G-Body Guru
Apr 15, 2009
611
93
eastern SD
I removed my engine and transmission off my 1983 Olds Hurst, W40. I also have the dual Snorkel Air cleaner, and other OEM parts. (drive shaft, starter a few other parts.
I replaces with a 5.3 engine, trans and ECM, fans etc. for convenience. (I'm approaching retirement, and wanted reliable transportation. Not sure what price to ask for these parts, and would people travel to pick up, or would I have to offer shipping. The engine has about 77k miles, and I added a shift kit to the transmission a few years ago. The engine has an edelbrock manifold, but when i purchased in 2016, I had the car it shipped in from Florida, it had an olds intake in the trunk and has no carburetor.
How can I identify the Engine and trans are the real deal. I know for certain the Hurst is an actual Hurst, has all the markings, shifter, W40 Tag under the hood and a few other marking exclusive to Hurst. But I am not sure about the engine and transmission.
I would like the funds to help with the AC cost (I live in Texas), and it has some hail damage from 2018 I need to repair, New tires, Upgraded brakes Etc.

Not sure If I should keep the parts, or sell them to someone that will use for their G Body.
Any help/thoughts would help.
I couldn't give away the vin 9 307 out of my 86. 442. I eventually sold the dual snorkel, carb, and cam/lifters seperately....then scrapped the rest. Sold the transmission for ~$300. So around $550 total.

Regarding the ls swap....I wouldn't let anyone discourage you from proceeding as planned. I swapped a 4.8 and 4l60e in my 442 around 4-5 years ago.....best thing I could have done from a driveability standpoint.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

64nailhead

Goat Herder
Supporting Member
Dec 1, 2014
4,825
113
Upstate NY
The 200-4R has value. They are getting rare and are not difficult to build for 400-450hp. They are the real deal for a non-computerized OD trans option, and a much better gear ratio than a 700-4R. If it is truly an OZ trans, then that alone is worth $500 around me. 10 years ago they were $100-150.
 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: 2 users

83hurst

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Thread starter
Jun 23, 2022
26
3
Keep them, if you have room. There is a stamp on the block below the #1 cylinder. That will tell you if it is numbers matching. The tag on the trans will also say OZ and have numbers stamped on it.
I will confirm the engine per your suggestions, however, I just saw the Just looked at the trans code, and no OZ tag. Apparently by what the group is saying, this is not a Hurst transmission.
Thanks for your help.
 

Attachments

  • hurst trans tag..jpg
    hurst trans tag..jpg
    719.7 KB · Views: 24

ELCAM

G-Body Guru
Jun 19, 2021
564
93
That's out of an 87 full size car, B or D body with a 307 and 2.73 gears.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

83hurst

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Thread starter
Jun 23, 2022
26
3
JMO.

The parts are only really "valuable" to another Hurst owner, as the 307 is not known for being a powerhouse in any form. Your originality is gone, so the H/O isn't worth much as far as an H/O anymore, but it may be worth something to the LS crowd until they figure out that those ain't worth much either. The carburetor is part of the H/O history as only one carburetor number came on the H/O. Without it, that value is hurt a bit. There's always stupid people out there that will pay more for something than what it's worth, so there's always hope. Maybe there's someone "un-doing" an LS swap on their 83 H/O and looking for the correct engine/transmission. That's the guy who will think it's valuable.

The only thing you can point to externally on the H/O engine is that fat balancer and timing tab on the front as VIN Y engines have a thin weird looking balancer and timing tab. All LV2 307 engines of that era have 5A heads and cast iron exhaust manifolds, and are virtually built the same. The cam and valve springs are different internally, that's about it. The 83 H/O has an aluminum intake manifold, while some other versions of the Y engine got cast iron, but that may have only been for non-CCC cars. I don't recall. Never had an 83 so I can't say for sure. But that wasn't a "special" intake or anything like the old W-30/W-31 intakes of yesteryear (and those really weren't all that and a bag of chips either as far as flow). Also the VIN derivative stamped on the front driver corner of the block should match the last 6 numbers of the car's VIN, so that's proof it came with that car. If you have the original ECM and original calbrator (chip), toss that in with the engine/transmission too. That is a good part to have that's hard to find. Why not?

I would suggest if you have room to store the parts, do it. If you ever sell the car, the new owner may find them more valuable than an LS engine. Or not. If you're going to keep the car forever, and pass it down to the kids, grandkids, whatever as is, then you'll never need those parts and I'd move them along.

The transmission should have a tag on it on the passenger side. "OZ" code. It was inked on plus it is stamped into the tag along the bottom. It MAY even have a paper tag on top of the transmission somewhere, or a paint marking saying it's an OZ. Never know. The driver side ledge should also show the VIN derivative like the engine block with the last 6 numbers matching the VIN of the car. The fact the transmission needed a shift kit tells me that it probably needs a rebuild. OZ transmissions were calbrated to shift hard out of first gear to begin with. The valve body was the magic of those transmissions. You should see a painted stamp of "OZ" on the side of the valve body. Should have seen it when you were putting the shift kit in. But sometimes that gets taken off with cleaners and such, so...

And if you're pointing to an LS for reliability, the Olds 307, or any Olds V8 for that matter, can give you miles and miles of reliable service if cared for. Sounds to me like someone may not have taken care of it. Sticking an Edelbrock intake on it already tells me a lot. Probably had a stupid E-brock AVS on it too. Hope they didn't wipe out the CCC system while they were at it, but I've got a sneaky feeling it isn't there anymore. I think it's more of the fact nobody knows how to work on them anymore and then they just tear out the CCC and 200 miles of wire and replace it with the PCM and the 200 miles of wire for an LS.

I still don't understand why people don't take a regular Cutlass Supreme/Calais/Salon, paint it up like an H/O or 442, and put in whatever strange engine/transmission combo they like, and resist tearing up a "real deal" H/O or 442. It will usually cost about the same either way. I won't ever get that illogical move at all. I respect people's right to treat their cars how they wish and follow their own dreams, I just don't always understand it. Probably never will. Someone trying to tell me their car is a Hurst/Olds with an LS engine in it usually gets no response from me. It lost its desirability as soon as that LS engine went in. You want to go fast, great. Do what you have to. A 307 ain't going to do that. But you want a "real" Hurst/Olds? Then deal with the 307 the General gave you. The H/O is more than just a paint job and some decals to me.

I appreciate your response. When I got this in 2016, and the carb, intake, computer, smog pump and aspirator tubes were missing or modified I was ok with it. Over the years, I drove sparingly and was not able to enjoy to the fullest due to issues with the carb, unplugged hoses, and wires not connected etc.. I purchased a brand new 1986 Cutlass with T Tops I kept original for years, not one modification or swap in the 10 years plus I had it. I am about keeping it real and original. 30 years later (2016) I went out to find another G body Cutlass. I found this one in Florida, and it was 5500.00 plus shipping and thought it was a good deal. I purchased knowing the entire car was not all original. I appreciated keeping it original as I did with my 1986 cutlass, But wanted the convenience of having some modern updates with an old school look while approaching my retirement. If the car was 100 original, and I could have maintained the OEM look and feel as I did with my 86, As it turn out the Trans tag is not an OZ tag, but a KCF. So maybe the engine is not an OEM. I plan on keeping the car other than the trans, engine and ECM original. Thanks again for your help, and your car looks awesome.
 

Attachments

  • hurst trans tag..jpg
    hurst trans tag..jpg
    719.7 KB · Views: 15

83hurst

Not-quite-so-new-guy
Thread starter
Jun 23, 2022
26
3
Well said, yeah I forgot to mention the normal balancer that is exclusive to the 307 HO in those years, a simple way to identify. The Olds V8 was probably GM most reliable V8 from those years, at least till the early 80's. A proper rebuild on the CCC carb and upgraded engine gaskets like a neoprene rear main, rubber with rigid carrier valve cover gaskets and either cork/rubber or latex coated pan gaskets with rigid carrier all help keep leaks to a minimum. Keep everything including the exhaust, if original, no one makes a reproduction currently. A big part of the cars value and these cars have gone up a lot recently, is their special and unique parts which offered good performance for an early 80's car. Remove all that and what do you have? Not even a 8.5" rear on the 83 HO. Even us Olds guys usually pull the small bore 307 since the big bore 350 and 403 are a direct swap and are way easier to get modern car performance levels and still retain most factory parts. The 307 can make 450 HP with very deep pockets. You could put a 4" Billet stroker crank in that 307 for 370ish cubic inches. Of course a custom piston would be needed, along with aftermarket rods. The crank is setup for LS rods as ground from Cutlassefi. Good luck, it is only an H/O with the special H/O parts.
Deep pockets is not what I have, horse power is less of a concern, and more about convenience of a modern engine. Most of my rental properties are in much older neighborhoods, however all have modern conveniences that work well for my renters.
(open walls, modern appliances, granite, hardwood flooring etc. .) That's how I look at this Hurst. It has gray interior, sunroof (astro roof) , Posi track, good body lines and of course the lightning rods, with the convenience of an updated engine. Thanks again for your help.
 

GBodyForum is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Amazon, the Amazon logo, AmazonSupply, and the AmazonSupply logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.

Please support GBodyForum Sponsors

Classic Truck Consoles Dixie Restoration Depot Mike's Montes P-S-T Southside Machine Performance UMI Performance

Contact Admin@GBodyForum.com for info on becoming a sponsor