BMW V12 Swap?
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That's pretty sweet... Sure there are some issues with Beemer mills but that's pretty cool... I like different!
In fact I'm a big fan of different... My '22 Dodge project is gettings a 223 Ford 6cyl and a 4spd OD, and I've got a 394 Olds Rocket, a 248 Straight 8 Buick, and 2 303 Olds Rockets waiting for homes too..
I've also toyed with the idea of dropping the 394 in a G-Body but I'd much rather have it in a 60's style show rod with a blower and 8 leaky Strombergs... and one of these days I'll figure out how to wedge the 460 Ford that's in the trusty ol' dually into the frame rails of an Elky...
And then there's the 218 Mopar flat six I've got thats going to get a 50's McCulloch blower attached to the front of it, on a model T frame with a speedster type body made from a John Deere M series hood and grille, and lots of trick louvered aluminium panels.. I have to finish a bunch of crap first though... My '80 Cutlass will get the 260 ripped out and replaced with a 425 with a tripower first though...
I love anything different from the ordinary SBC or BBC... That's why I love the old hot rods (not rat rods, rat rods blow hard)... the Y-Blocks, Nailheads, Rockets, Flat Heads, Cadillacs, MELs, Hemis, W-Motors, Mopar Polys, bangers, and sixes, all make me happy..
I just dig it when people stray away from the SBC route that is so commonly taken... There are just as many engines that can produce as much power as the SBC can.. Sure they may be more expensive or take more creativity to build but in the end it's worth it... I've seen people go to the lengths of using IH v8's and Packard V8's just to be different.. Hell I know of a guy running a Packard V8 in a Vega on the salt flats, that's pretty bad *ss if you ask me..
Another example is the dare to be different deal hot rod has started doing... Any one remember the Supra powered Camaro? That thing was sick... And then there was a Jag powered Depot Hack hot rod (one of my favorite cars Hot Rod has featured), there was the deal they did on Gremlins, the turbine powered Chevy truck, the Ferambo that won the Riddler (ferrari powered rambler wagon), there was a Desoto or Chrysler wagon that was runner up for the Riddler too (I think Rod & Custom did that feature), and then there was a slammed fenderless V-Dub, and that aluminium Pete cab Gizmoness that sadly had an SBC but was still pretty damn sweet....
The thing is it was the thing to do in the "day" to build a car with what was laying around, sure they had SBC's but not until 55 and they didn't gain huge popularity with hot rods until probably 59 or 60... Being different was key, if your neighbor ran a flatty in his A, you ran a 331 Hemi in yours.... Today hot rods and every other car have warped pretty much into one state of mind... Tell me at the next car show you go to how many Red '32 Ford roadsters you see that have SBC's auto trannies, 9 inch rears, and most likely tan or black interior.. Or how many G's you see rockin' the same ol' same ol' SBC? Why when there are so many other options? And if you don't know of any other options ask me, I'll tell ya.. Sure it's not always going to be easy, but to me if it was easy it wouldn't be fun.. I hate paint by numbers and catalog built cars... Where has the creativity gone?
In fact I'm a big fan of different... My '22 Dodge project is gettings a 223 Ford 6cyl and a 4spd OD, and I've got a 394 Olds Rocket, a 248 Straight 8 Buick, and 2 303 Olds Rockets waiting for homes too..
I've also toyed with the idea of dropping the 394 in a G-Body but I'd much rather have it in a 60's style show rod with a blower and 8 leaky Strombergs... and one of these days I'll figure out how to wedge the 460 Ford that's in the trusty ol' dually into the frame rails of an Elky...
And then there's the 218 Mopar flat six I've got thats going to get a 50's McCulloch blower attached to the front of it, on a model T frame with a speedster type body made from a John Deere M series hood and grille, and lots of trick louvered aluminium panels.. I have to finish a bunch of crap first though... My '80 Cutlass will get the 260 ripped out and replaced with a 425 with a tripower first though...
I love anything different from the ordinary SBC or BBC... That's why I love the old hot rods (not rat rods, rat rods blow hard)... the Y-Blocks, Nailheads, Rockets, Flat Heads, Cadillacs, MELs, Hemis, W-Motors, Mopar Polys, bangers, and sixes, all make me happy..
I just dig it when people stray away from the SBC route that is so commonly taken... There are just as many engines that can produce as much power as the SBC can.. Sure they may be more expensive or take more creativity to build but in the end it's worth it... I've seen people go to the lengths of using IH v8's and Packard V8's just to be different.. Hell I know of a guy running a Packard V8 in a Vega on the salt flats, that's pretty bad *ss if you ask me..
Another example is the dare to be different deal hot rod has started doing... Any one remember the Supra powered Camaro? That thing was sick... And then there was a Jag powered Depot Hack hot rod (one of my favorite cars Hot Rod has featured), there was the deal they did on Gremlins, the turbine powered Chevy truck, the Ferambo that won the Riddler (ferrari powered rambler wagon), there was a Desoto or Chrysler wagon that was runner up for the Riddler too (I think Rod & Custom did that feature), and then there was a slammed fenderless V-Dub, and that aluminium Pete cab Gizmoness that sadly had an SBC but was still pretty damn sweet....
The thing is it was the thing to do in the "day" to build a car with what was laying around, sure they had SBC's but not until 55 and they didn't gain huge popularity with hot rods until probably 59 or 60... Being different was key, if your neighbor ran a flatty in his A, you ran a 331 Hemi in yours.... Today hot rods and every other car have warped pretty much into one state of mind... Tell me at the next car show you go to how many Red '32 Ford roadsters you see that have SBC's auto trannies, 9 inch rears, and most likely tan or black interior.. Or how many G's you see rockin' the same ol' same ol' SBC? Why when there are so many other options? And if you don't know of any other options ask me, I'll tell ya.. Sure it's not always going to be easy, but to me if it was easy it wouldn't be fun.. I hate paint by numbers and catalog built cars... Where has the creativity gone?
silent_orchestra said:
I have no problem with creativity, but "some issues" is an understatement. The most common BMW V-12s are the 5.0 liter versions. These were rated at 295 HP. There are also 5.4 and 6.0 versions, with upwards of 400 HP. These higher output versions have variable valve timing and lift. This is used to eliminate the throttle to avoid pumping losses. Unfortunately, the computing power and software makes the space shuttle look like a PC. Start this swap by getting your electrical engineering degree.
On the other hand, if you plan to use the 5.0, well, why would you replace one 305 with another?
joe_padavano said:silent_orchestra said:
I have no problem with creativity, but "some issues" is an understatement. The most common BMW V-12s are the 5.0 liter versions. These were rated at 295 HP. There are also 5.4 and 6.0 versions, with upwards of 400 HP. These higher output versions have variable valve timing and lift. This is used to eliminate the throttle to avoid pumping losses. Unfortunately, the computing power and software makes the space shuttle look like a PC. Start this swap by getting your electrical engineering degree.
On the other hand, if you plan to use the 5.0, well, why would you replace one 305 with another?
Some issues is an understatement you are very right, but to me it's the same as people building 200 4r trannies.... In me and my dad's world they are garbage... But if you throw enough money at them... Tada! they'll take just as much power as a stock Th400...
Same thing with diesels... Throw enough money at a 6.0L Ford and you'll have a pretty quick turd.... Still probably won't beable to touch a built Cummins but you get the idea... Same for the so called "Allison" trannies they stick behind the over glorified Izusu diesels in the Chibbies... Throw money at 'em and they'll handle your "built" duramax, stick it behind a Cummins and see what happens..
But it all goes back to the guys who are building traditional hot rods like they did in the day... Sure a flat head Ford has it's issues, but it's different.. There are a ton of people running nail heads in hot rods... they aren't the greatest either... Then there are the guys that spend outrageous money on speed parts for early Hemis (not 392's, but Desoto and Dodge hemis)... They lack from the big dogs but who do you know runnin' a 215 Red Ram? Hell I'm dumping money in a 223 Ford inline 6 which I'll be lucky if I get 200hp out of, but I could care less... Yes I have better engines I could run, hell I could have bought a 350 for what I paid for a split header and an intake but it's all to stand out... I want to see the looks on peoples faces when they see a straight 6 in my "hot rod"... and here them ask why? when they realize I didn't use the typical set of "Duece rails" and a Ford body of my choosing... And then I can't wait 'til an older guy asks why my Dodge Brothers has a Pontiac grille shell..
Or why I "ruined" my cherry Cutlass by dropping a big block olds in it... Or why the 3x2 isn't under the hood of a 442...
It's all fun.... People need to stray away from the rest of the sheep more often... even if it's "hard" to comprehend..
Hmnn Silent you are an interesting guy. First I like "measure with yardstick, mark with chalk, cut with torch" I understand that completely. "People need to stray away from the rest of the sheep more often" like that to, I always say "break from follow the herd mentality". Although I can't say there are not times where the attributes of a sbc make it the best choice especially for certain people. When it comes to hot rods mine has to be at least some what fast. Then again I can respect somebody who builds something to be different and cool even if its not a hot rod. Since I am not the super welder fabricator and I have to feed the kids and bills to pay first I have to have projects that I can afford and complete before my 200th birthday. I need projects that are hmm feasable and can respect others with the same challenges. It at least partly why many of us have chosen the g-body.
Naturally I really like the 425 trip powered Cutlass idea even if its already been done its at least not so done. Its also a somewhat practical project car which will be great fun should be relatively fast & reliable. Who likes to have to fix something everytime you drive it or tow it home or rebuild it frequently.
On the 200-4r transmission you just missed the point entirely. Its not at all about tada they'll take as much power as a stock Th400. As long as its strong enough to do the job for your particular project thats only one requirement of the objective. Mine was about controlling the rpms on a quarter mile geared large rod & main bearing big block that does not like haveing the snot spun out of it. It needs to live in the enviroment I am going to use it. Second was ideal gearing for my particular project goals. I could go on about this. Third was practical & cost effective for my particular project and a distant fourth was reasonable mileage for my interstate jaunts since I live at the cross roads of two interstates.
Naturally I really like the 425 trip powered Cutlass idea even if its already been done its at least not so done. Its also a somewhat practical project car which will be great fun should be relatively fast & reliable. Who likes to have to fix something everytime you drive it or tow it home or rebuild it frequently.
On the 200-4r transmission you just missed the point entirely. Its not at all about tada they'll take as much power as a stock Th400. As long as its strong enough to do the job for your particular project thats only one requirement of the objective. Mine was about controlling the rpms on a quarter mile geared large rod & main bearing big block that does not like haveing the snot spun out of it. It needs to live in the enviroment I am going to use it. Second was ideal gearing for my particular project goals. I could go on about this. Third was practical & cost effective for my particular project and a distant fourth was reasonable mileage for my interstate jaunts since I live at the cross roads of two interstates.
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dogshit said:
The SBC actually probably is one of the best engine choices really.. Probably followed closely by the BBC, SBF, and BBF... And that is why you see so many.. But I still like the idea of different... If being different meens one of my projects is going to take longer because it takes a little more cash and time so be it.... I like making people scratch their heads and ask why??
I like my sig, my ol' man uses it all the time... My name came from a quote from my grandpa when I used to talk his ear off... "A silent orchestra plays for no one to hear, yet it's music is greatly appreciated"... and then there is my veiw on my ol' dodge and the rest of my projects "I built it with what I had layin' around, to bad there wasn't any cash in that ol' barn"
The Cutlass is a project I can't wait to do... But it will probably be a while since the little 260 still runs great (hell she's got 69,000 on the clock)... The plan is 425, .030 over, different cam (not sure on specs yet), headers,3x2, switch pitch 400, 9 inch, and rework the brakes.. Top the engine off with Olds stamped valve covers, and a coat of the same blue that's on the 260... Find an air cleaner that looks some what factory, ditch the ac, heat only box, and repaint a few things under the hood.. and top it all off with factory looking decals under the hood... I want it to look like it was supposed to be there, and I actually hope people walk by and don't really pay much attention, except for that one guy that notices something odd...
As far as my taste in hot rods the only reason I have a G-Body is because it was a christmas gift from my dad about for years ago, I've always like them just never though I'd have one, or at least as nice as my Cutlass... and I just like different... as far as project $$ goes my '22 Dodge so far has about $400 wrapped up in it, aside from the split header, and intake from Offy and Clifford... So far all the parts have come from a farm out in western NE that has been in a freind of my dad's family since the teens. Which has to be one of the most amazing places I've ever been.. But if it wasn't for the ol' farm I wouldn't be building a hot rod right now.. Everything for my Dodge has come from that farm, or with money I've made from the farm.. My only reasoning for using the 223 is that I liked the truck it came from, and I wanted part of it to live on through something else.. It's far from high tech, with old lever shocks, leaf springs, manual steering, a sloppy gear box, drum brakes, mechanical gauges, a gas heater, and a tube type radio and that's just the way I like it.. and hopefully one of these days the pile of cast off parts will be road worthy.. I could of made it easy but I didn't feel like it..
And finally the 200 deal... I probably missed the point but that's mainly because I get hung up on the idea of some one slamming a stock 200 behind a big block and blowing it to bits... I've seen what the trannies are cabable of when they are built up a bit, but I just can't get over the fact that they weren't the greatest trans. new... Then again my 223 has an 80's 4spd od top loader that wasn't a very healthy transmission either, but my ol' sixer shouldn't hurt it any..
I've always wanted to swap in the inline 3.0 Liter six cylinder from a Supra. Those engines will easily crank over 800HP with some internal upgrades and a bigger turbo, and still be streetable with 20+ mpg and much lighter... Then again I would lose all the looks of the V-8 and the deep sound that goes with it.
gto78 said:
A 2JZ can look just as good as a V8... Who can say no to a big *ss turbo hangin' off to the side? or two big *ss turbos? As far as sound, the sound of a high revin' sixer and turbos screamin' is a sound of beauty...
Now if it's the throaty sound of a low revin' 6 with turbos screamin' at idle and there is a smell of diesel fuel in the air along with a thick cloud of black smoke... That's pure beauty...
There was a Corvette at the last goodguys show in des moines that was runnin' a 6BT Cummins... It was so sweet..
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60195&highlight=odd+engine
Here's a good deal to look at if you like old and different! lots of odd engines... and if your into old hot rods I recomend the site too... lots of good info!
Here's a good deal to look at if you like old and different! lots of odd engines... and if your into old hot rods I recomend the site too... lots of good info!
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