Building a G Body All-Rounder

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

How would you go about building a G body into an all around great car? I mean, not just one that goes fast in a straight line but one that handles corners, brakes, is comfortable, has good ergonomics, good fuel efficiency, lacks squeaks and rattles, maintains good cargo space and is reasonably inexpensive to maintain. Should be able to be used as a daily driver too. What seats would you use? Engine? Transmission? Would you ditch the original suspension? Install an IRS? Diesel or gas? Auto, manual or maybe even a DSG or CVT?

It's not that I don't have my own ideas about this, I am just curious about the ideas other people have about this subject. PS: There is no limitation on what you can change in the car or what donor vehicles you can pull from. Just that it has to be a usable car in the end.

 

[megaladon6]

that's basically what i'm (very) slowly doing. the plans are-- AFX spindles, bilstein shocks, c5 front brakes, camaro rear discs, c5 wheels, hotchkiss rear links, 8.5in axle, GM ram jet injection w/ls6 type ignition,.
really expensive future stuff---air ride tech, 4l80e trans w/paddleshifter or the new 6spd auto shift trans coming out, turbos

don't know what seat i'll use for the front seats. i want a racing seat that's comfortable and adjustable. plus at 6'3" most seats are a little small.

 

[v8power]

85 Cutlass Brougham, sounds like you should buy a evo, or a sti, but on reading some of your posts, i know you are on a limited budget!, i would get a turbo set up for sure, convert back breaks to disc, and spend a boat load of $$ on suspension! as far a room on the inside, i have first gen camaro seats in mine, and i love them. they look cool, comfortable, and do not take up any room at all.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Thing is, I actually really like the G body. As good as the EVO and STI are, they are not really my style or cheap to keep up. The Subie has issues with the transmission if pushed much beyond stock and the EVO may be a good car, but it is a Mitsubishi. Plus, they are not cheap to hop up nor can I build one out of junkyard stuff. I'd prefer a BMW if I had to choose something more modern, but again it is to pricey to keep running or modify. However, a B16A VTEC swap into an original Austin Mini would be a fun project and deathtrap that I would do if I could.

I do have some issues with the G body where I feel the engineering can be substantially improved upon by looking at models from other manufacturers to see how they solved these issues differently. One of my pet irritations with the interior is the way the seat belt cuts into my neck. The pivot point is too high and I am 5 '10" not short or tall by any measure other than the NBA. I am thinking about an adjustable height seatbelt pivot from a European or Asian car as my solution for that. I have lower back pain and so I also need a seat that is shaped better in the lumbar area than the GM seats of the time. My solution there will be a set of front seats from either a BMW or Mercedes Benz, and maybe getting the rear seat from the donor and using the upholstery from it to recover a stock or modified G body seat frame. Whatever seats I use they have to have solid supports in the edges to hold me in corners. I also want to have a manual trans and will probably do a T-5. I have a carb on it right now, but may do a complete swap to an EFI engine of a more modern design like the LS series with it's 6 speed manual. That is all in the future as I am right now trying to just finish the body and make it drivable first. The T-5 upgrade will come after assembly as I have issues with the TH200 4R right now and do not wish to pay to rebuild it when I can just figure out how to fabricate a few things to put an inexpensive T-5 in it. When I am done, I have no illusions of taking on an M3 on a road course and winning-but I also think that it would not be too embarrassing a match up either.

My whole thing is that we do not need to live in the 1970's anymore. You can get better performance in all areas today from an old car than if it were built back then. 12's were fast back then, now you can get 12's off the showroom floor with a good warranty and fuel economy. A Hot Rod should not be a lesser performing car than a fairly common stock one like a base Corvette. Hot Rodding is about using your brains instead of your debit card to figure out how to get what you wish to have. That's the fun of messing with these old cars. Out thinking not out spending, and rebelling against conventional wisdom that tells you it can't be done.

 

[Silent viewer]

my whole idea (see signature) is to moderize my old school car(s). i have brought up the seat belt thing also (see past subjects i have posted), i hate them with a passion, i am going to use seat belts out of a newer cadillac on mine i think. i am using 99 bonnilville sse leather bucket seats among a whole bunch of other upgrades with the interior. efi in my opinion is a must and i have researched it so much that i would be a crazy fool not to do it. i like the idea of using new parts to make our old poorly designed cars the way they should have been built....but better. i am however faithfull to gm and like to use gm parts such as the seats and seatbelts whenever possible. i have always wanted to get a 87 monte ss and build it the way that gm SHOULD have built the car with available technology that they were putting in camaros and other gm products, can you imagine a factory 87 ss with a tpi 350, 700r4 with all wheel 12" brakes, leather buckets, upgraded suspension....... it would have been sick! and they had all of it right there with all the ability in the world and they didnt do it. sorry to get off subject a bit but it kinda goes with the subject. turn old to modern!!

 

[Derision]

my whole idea (see signature) is to moderize my old school car(s). i have brought up the seat belt thing also (see past subjects i have posted), i hate them with a passion, i am going to use seat belts out of a newer cadillac on mine i think. i am using 99 bonnilville sse leather bucket seats among a whole bunch of other upgrades with the interior. efi in my opinion is a must and i have researched it so much that i would be a crazy fool not to do it. i like the idea of using new parts to make our old poorly designed cars the way they should have been built....but better. i am however faithfull to gm and like to use gm parts such as the seats and seatbelts whenever possible. i have always wanted to get a 87 monte ss and build it the way that gm SHOULD have built the car with available technology that they were putting in camaros and other gm products, can you imagine a factory 87 ss with a tpi 350, 700r4 with all wheel 12" brakes, leather buckets, upgraded suspension....... it would have been sick! and they had all of it right there with all the ability in the world and they didnt do it. sorry to get off subject a bit but it kinda goes with the subject. turn old to modern!!

I agree completely. If money were no object, that would be my goal.

What I always found funny was that, reading reviews and whatever from the day, it's obvious that these G-Bodies were outdated and outclassed when they were new! And it's true... I've had an '85 Cadillac Cimmaron and an '86 Buick Skylark, and the technology gap between those cars and my '85 Grand Prix is immense. The Grand Prix feels like it was made in the mid seventies in comparison.

I would love to modernize it, fix the design flaws that GM didn't feel it necessary to do anything about.

I happen to like my bench seat, though. :wink:

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

My biggest problem with the GM seats is that they look good but are not built with hardened supports on the thigh and leg bolsters. It's just foam. I too would use all GM parts if I thought they would do the job, and most of my car is built out of stock components from other GM models like the Olds Intrigue's rear view mirror with compass, outside temp, auto dimming and map lights built in. I also used some L69 Z-28 parts under the hood, and plan on an all-GM brake upgrade consisting of 4th gen F car rear brakes and B body fronts. I plan on having a very comfortable interior with far more function than stock and improved ergonomics where possible. I would love to add a satellite navigation system in dash between the two vents, and satellite radio, etc. I also really want a Cutlass sport steering wheel and some sort of console with cup holders and storage in it, but made of high quality materials. I don't like the horribly cheap feel of most GM plastics used since the early 90's and much prefer that of it's products in the 80's. I found a nice set of seats in dark blue vinyl in a 1987 Mercedes 190E that fit the bill, and should have grabbed them for the $30-50 they would have cost me with the sliders. Nicely built and stiff with a good amount of support without clamping your butt the way some Honda seats do. IF money were no object I would also design a new dash that blends to a center console too. The position of the radio and HVAC controls is too far out of reach for the driver and uncomfortable to go for if you like to hunt for channels like me. I like the look of the original, but it seems that GM designed the interior with no regard for how the human body works. That's why I would borrow from European and Japanese manufacturer's for ideas as their interiors are much more functional and user-friendly. Maybe a simple change of seats to ones with a adjustable backrest will solve all this as the "laid back and pimpin' " backrest position it came with does little to make it easy to reach the controls.

 

[Silent viewer]

i know what you are saying with the seats. with my dash the ac vent area is going to have a screen molded in for my existing in dash dvd player which is also going to have navigation. i just went on a road trip visiting sites all over and we used a garmin, let me tell you, i am sold! they work incredably well predicting times and knowing EXACTLY where you are, i gotta have it, lol. i am in the process of fiberglassing my dash board and molding it into a custom center council, i am using all dakota digital gauges in blue to match my car and then the whole thing is getting painted body colored. i am also fiberglassing and painting post of the hard plastic through out the interior. i am odviously not going for stock apperance by no means and finding really nice and matching panels well are damn near impossible, this way i can take some of the existing stuff that is aged and basically ruined and make it useable again. i dont care for the b body brake upgrade personally just because by the time you pay for control arms, used spindels, new rotors, calipers, pads and brake lines you will likely have close to a grand into the setup, you could just as easily buy a wilwood of similar setup and get even better braking. right now i have the s10 11" dual piston setup with the sealed hub and i REALLY like the sealed hub because there is nothing to restrict different after market rims since there is no big bulging housing for the bearings, and it has slip off rotors wich makes changing the brakes a breeze. im curious about your mirror, was that a matter of hooking it up to switched ignition to make it work??

 

[KrisW]

Merry Christmas!!

Regardless of diesel or gas, the engine needs computer controls which are tuneable, as does the transmission. Those are pretty easily attainable with our cars. Turbos are my personal favorite accessory.

I have seen Grand Nationals really do well at the SCCA rallies in Indiana. They were competing with and beating f-bodies of the 3rd and 4th gen cars after just a few mods. Apparently, the old school way of full framing cars are not as bad as people think! A stiff chassis is the key to handling! They typically run boxed control arms, with adjustments sometimes. Stiff springs and rally shocks help as well. Big brakes of course are a must and big sway bars are available!

Our cars are readily able to accept full power accessories, A/C, cruise control and full gauges, with only a GPS NAVI-COMPUTER needed to fully round out the cockpit.

The truth is, I think the G-body cars are the last of the great platforms that can be modified to modern standards but will not be sissified with unitized body construction that is inherently weak. We have the last good ones!!

 

[Jim Rockford]

Try finding a set of mid 90's bonnieville seats ..