fellas - i'd like to lower the front of my wagon 1"...how much coil would i need to cut? i have read a lot of posts about lowering, but no real pat info on how much of the coil to cut. anyone know? thanks for the answers.
cutting front springs
- Thread starter EdontheBeach
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From my past experience, whatever it drops initially will look great for 2-3 days. After the springs heat cycle a few times, it falls on the bump stops. This happened after I cut 1/2 coil out of my 79 T/A. I'll never cut a coil again, and, yes, I used a cut-off wheel not a torch. You can't really go wrong with a drop spindle.
Longroof79 said:
it is for a 5660 moog....for other springs I'n not sure. I cut mine and they never changed in height after a few days, it's still the same after a few years. And when you cut a spring the spring rate goes up due to less leverage
One of the spring vendors, maybe the one on this site not sure do a check, it is one of the name brands, it says in the front cut half of what you want, so if you want 1" drop then cut 1/2" off. They also reference the back as a one to one cut. Never tried it so maybe call them.
Here's what Eaton springs has to say on the matter. ...
EATON Detroit Spring
The leading manufacturer of leaf and coil springs for the street rod and restoration industries
Cutting Coil Springs
June 28, 2013 By Mike Eaton
Cutting Coil Springs
When it’s ok, and what NOT to do.
Every now and then the question comes up and customers want to know, “Can we cut coil springs to lower a vehicle?”
Our answer is, “The design of the end of the spring determines if it can be safely cut. If it has the right end, it is OK to cut it.”
Coil springs have 3 basic type of ends -
■Tangential- where the end of the coil continues to twist off into space. A spring with a tangential end would fall over if you tried to stand it on its end.
■Square – the last coil bends back down to touch the coil below it. This style end allows the spring to stand up when placed on this end
■Pigtail – the last coil of the spring is the square type but has a much smaller diameter than the coils in the body of the spring.
The type of ends a coil spring has is determined by how the springs are mounted in the suspension. A coil spring can have 2 of the same ends or it can have 2 different ends.
The only Coil Spring Ends that can be safely cut are Tangential Ends.
Because Square ends and Pigtail ends are designed to make full contact with their mounting points, they would have to be re-shaped after they were cut. But in order to re-shape them the steel would have to be heated and heat is a spring’s worst enemy.
So, Coil springs with Square or Pigtail ends can not be safely cut.
So how are Tangential Coil Spring Ends cut?
Using a torch is a great big No, No.
Remember, heat is a spring’s worst enemy. The reason is it only takes 400 degrees F to start annealing spring steel. Anneal means the steel begin’s to soften and a soft spring can not hold up your vehicle. You, the spring owner, can not do anything to make a soft spring hard again. A heated spring is a ruined spring.
A hacksaw or cutoff wheel is the best way to cut a Coil Spring.
OK, you have Tangential End springs, a hacksaw, and are wearing safety goggles. Now how much do you want to cut off?
The first thing you need to know is that cutting a coil spring will not only lower the vehicle, but it will also stiffen the spring making the ride and handling a bit firmer. But this is a good thing because lowering a vehicle reduces the amount of suspension travel. A stiffer spring will help reduce bottoming out.
A safe place to start is by measuring how much you want to lower the vehicle. Then cut 1/2 that measurement off the length of the springs and reinstall them. Then take her for a drive, and drive it like you stole it to get the springs well worked and seated properly.
Now check your ride height. If she’s still too high, repeat step 1 until you get the look you want. Remember, you can always take more off, but you can never make them longer
What if you have Square or Pigtail Ends?
Fear not, for chances are we have other Square or Pigtailed end springs already designed to give you the lowered ride you seek.
How far can a coil sprung vehicle be lowered?
We limit the amount of lowering to 2 Inches maximum. Why you ask? Because as a vehicle is lowered, the amount of travel left in the suspension before there is a jounce, metal to metal contact, condition is reduced also. Too much lowering can cause other parts of the vehicle to hit each other, and this would be a bad thing. So we say, and only do 2 Inches so this problem does not occur.
And a final bit of advice: Don’t go perpetuating the old myth of touching a torch to them until she sinks to where you want her.
You’ll end up with springs that are about as effective as marshmallows.
http://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs/
EATON Detroit Spring
The leading manufacturer of leaf and coil springs for the street rod and restoration industries
Cutting Coil Springs
June 28, 2013 By Mike Eaton
Cutting Coil Springs
When it’s ok, and what NOT to do.
Every now and then the question comes up and customers want to know, “Can we cut coil springs to lower a vehicle?”
Our answer is, “The design of the end of the spring determines if it can be safely cut. If it has the right end, it is OK to cut it.”
Coil springs have 3 basic type of ends -
■Tangential- where the end of the coil continues to twist off into space. A spring with a tangential end would fall over if you tried to stand it on its end.
■Square – the last coil bends back down to touch the coil below it. This style end allows the spring to stand up when placed on this end
■Pigtail – the last coil of the spring is the square type but has a much smaller diameter than the coils in the body of the spring.
The type of ends a coil spring has is determined by how the springs are mounted in the suspension. A coil spring can have 2 of the same ends or it can have 2 different ends.
The only Coil Spring Ends that can be safely cut are Tangential Ends.
Because Square ends and Pigtail ends are designed to make full contact with their mounting points, they would have to be re-shaped after they were cut. But in order to re-shape them the steel would have to be heated and heat is a spring’s worst enemy.
So, Coil springs with Square or Pigtail ends can not be safely cut.
So how are Tangential Coil Spring Ends cut?
Using a torch is a great big No, No.
Remember, heat is a spring’s worst enemy. The reason is it only takes 400 degrees F to start annealing spring steel. Anneal means the steel begin’s to soften and a soft spring can not hold up your vehicle. You, the spring owner, can not do anything to make a soft spring hard again. A heated spring is a ruined spring.
A hacksaw or cutoff wheel is the best way to cut a Coil Spring.
OK, you have Tangential End springs, a hacksaw, and are wearing safety goggles. Now how much do you want to cut off?
The first thing you need to know is that cutting a coil spring will not only lower the vehicle, but it will also stiffen the spring making the ride and handling a bit firmer. But this is a good thing because lowering a vehicle reduces the amount of suspension travel. A stiffer spring will help reduce bottoming out.
A safe place to start is by measuring how much you want to lower the vehicle. Then cut 1/2 that measurement off the length of the springs and reinstall them. Then take her for a drive, and drive it like you stole it to get the springs well worked and seated properly.
Now check your ride height. If she’s still too high, repeat step 1 until you get the look you want. Remember, you can always take more off, but you can never make them longer
What if you have Square or Pigtail Ends?
Fear not, for chances are we have other Square or Pigtailed end springs already designed to give you the lowered ride you seek.
How far can a coil sprung vehicle be lowered?
We limit the amount of lowering to 2 Inches maximum. Why you ask? Because as a vehicle is lowered, the amount of travel left in the suspension before there is a jounce, metal to metal contact, condition is reduced also. Too much lowering can cause other parts of the vehicle to hit each other, and this would be a bad thing. So we say, and only do 2 Inches so this problem does not occur.
And a final bit of advice: Don’t go perpetuating the old myth of touching a torch to them until she sinks to where you want her.
You’ll end up with springs that are about as effective as marshmallows.
http://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs/
Here's what Speed Direct has to say, totally contrary to Eaton Spring.
Lowering by Cutting a Coil Spring
Cutting a Coil Spring
Lowering a car will result in lowering the center of gravity lessening roll and generally improving handling. There is a very inexpensive way of doing this and it involves cutting the coil springs on your cars suspension.
Many gasp in horror at the thought of cutting a coil spring. The reasoning goes something like this, “You use heat, that will ruin the temper and the spring will collapse.” Another angle, “The spring will not properly fit the pocket, and you won’t get full travel. These are misconceptions about what is being done from people who have never done it. Let’s examine the facts and look at the reasons and the proper way to do this modification.
My older brother was a not so elegant hot rodder who lowered his cars for appearance sake by “torching” the springs. He would run a cutting torch along one of the vertical set of coils of a coil spring while it was on the car, with weight on the wheels until the poor spring mostly collapsed. The result was a “slambed” ride with about an inch of suspension travel; not recommended. What he was doing was heating the spring steel until it became plastic, about 1800 deg F (orange yellow) while it was loaded. The weigh of the vehicle made it sag. The spring colapse and “springiness” on the heated side transferring the load to the half not heated.
Addressing the first issue of cutting the spring; namely temper, will not be affected for the portion of the coils left after cutting. That is because the uncut coils do not get hot enough to loose their set or temper if done correctly, and that is very easy to control. Springs are trimmed while unloaded and off of the car, using an oxy-acetylene cutting torch.
The second myth is that they will not fit the pocket and / or get full travel. Most stock springs can be trimmed a half coil to lower the car just enough for to improve handling. The spring must be LOCALLY heated a half coil below the cut so it can be bent to match the spring pocket.
Let’s look at each step and address the proper method to achieve a professional result.
1. CAUTION! Carefully remove the coil spring from the vehicle. Springs are under load, even when the car is jacked up. Carelessly releasing that load can result in serious injury.
Many shop manuals give you the step by step method to easily and safely remove the spring; follow the guidance! Study what is recommended for your car, and follow their directions. You may need a spring compressor to safely do this which is available from most tool rental shops.
2. Mark the spring one half coil directly across from the original end.
3. Cut the spring with an oxy acetylene torch on the mark.
4. Now locally heat the spring as shown, one half coil beyond where you just cut.
5. Quickly flip the spring and push the newly cut end against the shop floor to set the end so it will fit the pocket. Keep it vertical so the end forms flat for the pocket. DO NOT quench the spring in water, rather let it air cool slowly.
6. Give the spring a coat of paint and re-install per the shop manual taking care that you will once again be “loading” the spring with tension. CAUTION: Following the shop manuals instruction and using the proper tools is essential to safely installing the cut spring. You should re-align the front end since the lower ride height will affect alignment.
Once completed you will have a lower stance, lower center of gravity and improved cornering ability all at little or no cost.
http://www.speeddirect.com/index.php/te ... oil-spring
Lowering by Cutting a Coil Spring
Cutting a Coil Spring
Lowering a car will result in lowering the center of gravity lessening roll and generally improving handling. There is a very inexpensive way of doing this and it involves cutting the coil springs on your cars suspension.
Many gasp in horror at the thought of cutting a coil spring. The reasoning goes something like this, “You use heat, that will ruin the temper and the spring will collapse.” Another angle, “The spring will not properly fit the pocket, and you won’t get full travel. These are misconceptions about what is being done from people who have never done it. Let’s examine the facts and look at the reasons and the proper way to do this modification.
My older brother was a not so elegant hot rodder who lowered his cars for appearance sake by “torching” the springs. He would run a cutting torch along one of the vertical set of coils of a coil spring while it was on the car, with weight on the wheels until the poor spring mostly collapsed. The result was a “slambed” ride with about an inch of suspension travel; not recommended. What he was doing was heating the spring steel until it became plastic, about 1800 deg F (orange yellow) while it was loaded. The weigh of the vehicle made it sag. The spring colapse and “springiness” on the heated side transferring the load to the half not heated.
Addressing the first issue of cutting the spring; namely temper, will not be affected for the portion of the coils left after cutting. That is because the uncut coils do not get hot enough to loose their set or temper if done correctly, and that is very easy to control. Springs are trimmed while unloaded and off of the car, using an oxy-acetylene cutting torch.
The second myth is that they will not fit the pocket and / or get full travel. Most stock springs can be trimmed a half coil to lower the car just enough for to improve handling. The spring must be LOCALLY heated a half coil below the cut so it can be bent to match the spring pocket.
Let’s look at each step and address the proper method to achieve a professional result.
1. CAUTION! Carefully remove the coil spring from the vehicle. Springs are under load, even when the car is jacked up. Carelessly releasing that load can result in serious injury.
Many shop manuals give you the step by step method to easily and safely remove the spring; follow the guidance! Study what is recommended for your car, and follow their directions. You may need a spring compressor to safely do this which is available from most tool rental shops.
2. Mark the spring one half coil directly across from the original end.
3. Cut the spring with an oxy acetylene torch on the mark.
4. Now locally heat the spring as shown, one half coil beyond where you just cut.
5. Quickly flip the spring and push the newly cut end against the shop floor to set the end so it will fit the pocket. Keep it vertical so the end forms flat for the pocket. DO NOT quench the spring in water, rather let it air cool slowly.
6. Give the spring a coat of paint and re-install per the shop manual taking care that you will once again be “loading” the spring with tension. CAUTION: Following the shop manuals instruction and using the proper tools is essential to safely installing the cut spring. You should re-align the front end since the lower ride height will affect alignment.
Once completed you will have a lower stance, lower center of gravity and improved cornering ability all at little or no cost.
http://www.speeddirect.com/index.php/te ... oil-spring
thanks for he input fellas; here is my delimma
i put 2" drop spindles in my '83 Cutlass front end...it LOOKS just like i want it, but with 205/60-16x8 wheels i get a lot of rubbing when i roll over, even a small bump in the road. if the front end was 1" or probably even 3/4" higher i would be OK. what i have reasoned to be the solution is to put the stock spindles back on and cut the springs down 1".
i plan to use this car for extended highway trips across America - i'm concerned that on the 10th, or the 50th time it dips enough to go thru that sidewall and the car does a nascar imitation, taking me and others out at 70mph.
i will try to post pics here, though i've not had good luck with pics on this site
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv18 ... 292015.jpg
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv18 ... 052303.jpg
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv18 ... abcb37.jpg
i put 2" drop spindles in my '83 Cutlass front end...it LOOKS just like i want it, but with 205/60-16x8 wheels i get a lot of rubbing when i roll over, even a small bump in the road. if the front end was 1" or probably even 3/4" higher i would be OK. what i have reasoned to be the solution is to put the stock spindles back on and cut the springs down 1".
i plan to use this car for extended highway trips across America - i'm concerned that on the 10th, or the 50th time it dips enough to go thru that sidewall and the car does a nascar imitation, taking me and others out at 70mph.
i will try to post pics here, though i've not had good luck with pics on this site
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv18 ... 292015.jpg
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv18 ... 052303.jpg
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv18 ... abcb37.jpg
for only about $80 you can get front springs for a mid 80's s-10. it's moog 5658.
i installed them on my car last year. it lowered it about 3/4'' -1'' and it rides much firmer, corners better. fits perfectly and no worries about bottoming out.
i installed them on my car last year. it lowered it about 3/4'' -1'' and it rides much firmer, corners better. fits perfectly and no worries about bottoming out.
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