flowmaster headache
- Thread starter TomT
- Start date
- Status
Straight through muffler flow rates don't prove anything. Come on, man.
By your rationale, you would be stating that every single engine combination would run better through open headers or straight pipes, right? WRONG!!
I don't care one fig about blow through flow numbers. That is not what Flowmasters were designed for. They were designed to have the inner V-chamber create a pressure drop with a scavenging affect.
Engine dyno numbers matter and quarter mile times certainly matter. If you have a documented story or some other PROOF that someone took off his flowmaster, put on the same size inlet and outlet pipe, and then took another quarter mile run with results, I would love to see it.
What I saw was an article in Custom Rodder, probably around 1995. They featured a 1965 Buick Special that they were working on. They warmed over the little 300 small block V8 and added a 2004r Grand National transmission to it. They were searching for performance from the exhaust next.
First, they ran a set of 2 1/2" duals with garden variety turbo mufflers after scrapping the stock single setup. Next, they ran high dollar high flow mufflers. Last, they ran a single 3" setup with a nice y-pipe that they made from 2 1/2" mandrel bent tubing and a flowmaster 2 into 1 transition piece. They used a single flowmaster and the single exhaust setup beat the others on the dyno.
So here is what I'm saying. Exhaust has to be tuned just like the rest of the engine. Don't be so hasty to throw Flowmaster out. If you don't like the sound, then that's fine. I do like it, and my last two 12.7x cars liked them, too.
Post your dyno results if you have actual testing to prove that Flowmaster is no good. A google search on flow is meaningless.
By your rationale, you would be stating that every single engine combination would run better through open headers or straight pipes, right? WRONG!!
I don't care one fig about blow through flow numbers. That is not what Flowmasters were designed for. They were designed to have the inner V-chamber create a pressure drop with a scavenging affect.
Engine dyno numbers matter and quarter mile times certainly matter. If you have a documented story or some other PROOF that someone took off his flowmaster, put on the same size inlet and outlet pipe, and then took another quarter mile run with results, I would love to see it.
What I saw was an article in Custom Rodder, probably around 1995. They featured a 1965 Buick Special that they were working on. They warmed over the little 300 small block V8 and added a 2004r Grand National transmission to it. They were searching for performance from the exhaust next.
First, they ran a set of 2 1/2" duals with garden variety turbo mufflers after scrapping the stock single setup. Next, they ran high dollar high flow mufflers. Last, they ran a single 3" setup with a nice y-pipe that they made from 2 1/2" mandrel bent tubing and a flowmaster 2 into 1 transition piece. They used a single flowmaster and the single exhaust setup beat the others on the dyno.
So here is what I'm saying. Exhaust has to be tuned just like the rest of the engine. Don't be so hasty to throw Flowmaster out. If you don't like the sound, then that's fine. I do like it, and my last two 12.7x cars liked them, too.
Post your dyno results if you have actual testing to prove that Flowmaster is no good. A google search on flow is meaningless.
A Flowmaster will out flow a stock type muffler, so yes, people do go faster with flowmasters.
My point is there are muffllers out there that flow equal too or better then Flowmasters that don't make your ears bleed.
I have a stack of Flowmaster take offs from customers cars due to thier drone.
I have followed the work by Jim Hand on exhaust systems.
Do a search, it is a good read.
I tamed a set of Flowmasters for a customer by installing Moroso Spiral flow mufflers down stream. Really took the edge off and made the lady next door happy.
My point is there are muffllers out there that flow equal too or better then Flowmasters that don't make your ears bleed.
I have a stack of Flowmaster take offs from customers cars due to thier drone.
I have followed the work by Jim Hand on exhaust systems.
Do a search, it is a good read.
I tamed a set of Flowmasters for a customer by installing Moroso Spiral flow mufflers down stream. Really took the edge off and made the lady next door happy.
KrisW said:
You are absolutely correct, however by your own logic, your 12.7 cars could be 12.5 cars with different exhaust. You haven't done the testing either.
Admittedly, I did a compromise on my exhaust system. I go for the stock look with extra punch from the hidden places. I like the single 3" cat back style because it works great on my 3rd gen F-bodys. When I saw that my Cutlass used a similar setup (and my Omega too) I figured, why not try? A few modified brackets welded on later, and I was in business. It is easy to have the muffler way back in the system this way and then run short tail pipes exiting behind the tires. This is the look I like and it takes a compromise from "true duals" to get there. If it really costs me .20 in the quarter mile then I guess I will have to make it up under the hood!!
I run the flowmaster 80 because I haven't seen (by time slip testing at the strip) any other muffler do better on my 3rd gen Firebirds. I have run stock, Flowmaster 80 3" in and dual 2 1/2 out, Thrush Cat Back, and Dynomax on my cars. I didn't see a nickel's worth of difference at the track with any of them except the loss of power with the stock system. I am not a super high tech tuner, but I do read a lot. I also like the thicker construction of the muffler. They are easier to weld hangers to and they don't rust through as easily as other mufflers do.
I have not read anything that says Flowmasters suck except from personal opinions. In my low level of testing I have not lost anything running them.
Most people who say that also do not have time slips or dyno charts to prove me wrong. It's my car and I like them. I like the sound, and as I said before, the tinny sound changes if you run the crossflow behind the rear end. I don't know the science of it, only that it does. My engines typically make less than 450 HP and I'm not sure at which point do you start to see real gains with better flowing high end mufflers. I honestly don't know.
At some point I may invest the money to dyno test different exhausts on my car, but maybe I won't. The important thing is that I like it and it does make power.
I don't typically run lots of expensive parts but I still seem to find my way into the 12's from time to time. I do it with the budget fully in mind. I'm dead serious when I say that if someone else can show me the proof that my flowmaster is costing me 2 tenths in the quarter then I will most likely change it.
I have not seen this proof yet. Until then, I will continue running second hand Flowmasters and blowing people's doors off.
I run the flowmaster 80 because I haven't seen (by time slip testing at the strip) any other muffler do better on my 3rd gen Firebirds. I have run stock, Flowmaster 80 3" in and dual 2 1/2 out, Thrush Cat Back, and Dynomax on my cars. I didn't see a nickel's worth of difference at the track with any of them except the loss of power with the stock system. I am not a super high tech tuner, but I do read a lot. I also like the thicker construction of the muffler. They are easier to weld hangers to and they don't rust through as easily as other mufflers do.
I have not read anything that says Flowmasters suck except from personal opinions. In my low level of testing I have not lost anything running them.
Most people who say that also do not have time slips or dyno charts to prove me wrong. It's my car and I like them. I like the sound, and as I said before, the tinny sound changes if you run the crossflow behind the rear end. I don't know the science of it, only that it does. My engines typically make less than 450 HP and I'm not sure at which point do you start to see real gains with better flowing high end mufflers. I honestly don't know.
At some point I may invest the money to dyno test different exhausts on my car, but maybe I won't. The important thing is that I like it and it does make power.
I don't typically run lots of expensive parts but I still seem to find my way into the 12's from time to time. I do it with the budget fully in mind. I'm dead serious when I say that if someone else can show me the proof that my flowmaster is costing me 2 tenths in the quarter then I will most likely change it.
I have not seen this proof yet. Until then, I will continue running second hand Flowmasters and blowing people's doors off.
KrisW said:
And as I stated above, if you Google muffler flow tests, you get links that include not only open end flow test data but also dyno and track test data, such as this:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/show ... p?t=263014
I'm curious, however. Since you discount CFM flow tests on mufflers, do you also discount such flow tests on carbs? I will agree with your basic premise, however, that the combo that works at the track is the one you should use, not the one featured in this month's car magazines. Unfortunately you appear to be basing your selection of what works on a G-body based on what you've seen work on an F-body. That may or may not be applicable data. I'm not smart enough to know. I do know that I can't personally afford to buy dozens of mufflers and run my own comparison tests, so in lieu of that, I'll have to base my decision on published test data.
- Status
