HELP!!! Valve Adjustments, Comp Cams Magnum Roller Rockers??

[mebe007]

ok so i have comp magnum roller rockers on my engine. got it in the car and all wired up. engine was test fired on the stand after all lash was removed from the rocker arms. ran engine in car, however it was running a bit rough, (new carb, unadjusted valves, and no fine tuning of the timing). so i pull the valve covers to adjust the valves like i normally do, but soon as i put the socket on the nut of #1 exhaust the engine dies out(i did not adjust a thing at this point). so with the engine off i look at it and the socket wont fit in the rockers to adjust the valve unless its at a certain point, kinda jams in there unless it is just right. so i get an old 5/8 socket and grind it down and still the same thing. so i try to adjust everything statically. tdc #1 firing position, adjust the valves which are able to be adjusted the rotate to #6 firing position and adjust others. get to zero lash and then 1 full turn , put the valve covers back on and and try to fire and sounds like no compression so i repeat the procedure except only tighten 1/2 turn after zero lash and then the engine trys to fire with a backfire out of carb. so i go to tdc and check the dist, and rotor points to #1 cyl like it is supposed to. so i tweak the timing a bit to see if she will fire. no such luck only backfires out of carb. sooooooooooooooooooo what should i do. i would like to get the car running for my birthday on thursday. i have been working on this thing for a year and am looking forward to completion. so how do i go about adjusting these valves and getting thispig running. all engine specs are in my sig by the way. thanks in advance guys.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Well, a sure fire way to be sure the cam is on the base circle of the lobe you are adjusting is to rotate it until the other valve in that cylinder is open enough that you are past the overlap. I adjust my rockers with the engine off and warmed up. That way I can roll the pushrod with the fingers of one hand while I tighten it with the other. When it does not move too easily, it is in adjustment. This works only on hydraulic cams as solid cams require a different method I have never had use for.

 

[Uncletruck]

I am not being a prick here, but see three things that aren't mixing. A lot of money invested in to great engine components, poor tools not made for the jobs, and tuning done redneck style, especially on the valve end.

Just the way I see it invest in knowing what you need to do properly first, (Books, time, magazines etc,) get the proper tools, then buy the performance parts to make it happen instead of buying a bunch of stuff, bolting it on and wishing on a star.

-UT-

 

[mebe007]

ok just to let you know i work as a marine mechanic at a marina. i did the rebuild by the book. comp says adjust while not running, marine engines are the opposite, run and adjust. sorry to say but before you say someone i a redneck or tuning redneck style or to say that they need to read more and such, know who you are dealing with or ask of the persons knowledge before making that kind of remark. if i was not competent in building an engine i would not do so. ive run into a problem as i have never used roller rockers before and the comp rockers are much thicker than the gm staped steel rockers.

 

[megaladon6]

are those roller tip, or full rollers? i have the roller tip magnums in mine with a hydraulic flat-tappet from comp cams. the instructions on mine said to adjust to zero lash and then an additional 1/4 turn.
one mistake i made was that i adjusted the lash, then i took a quick look later and the rods were loose. not thinking i tightened them down. when i cranked the engine it bent the rods. what happened was the lifters, with no oil pressure, had collapsed.
what cam is in the car? mine sounds rough and out of tune unless i massively advance the timing. of course at that point you can't drive it.
you're a mechanic, i'm a mechanic but i still do this... make sure that the wires are routed right, i keep swapping 5 and 7. 😳

 

[mebe007]

im only running the roller tip magnums. my directions said to go 1/2 turn after zero lash, thats weird. im running a performer rpm cam. also i have proper tools, i build marine engines all the time. i have never had this issue though as all marine engines use stamped steel rocker arms.also mercury marine taught us to adjust valves while the engine is running. so can someone go through the proper way to adjust the valves while the engine is off so i can get this pig running tomorrow.

also i dont think my cam is too rough of an idle it has 112deg lobe separation, so im guessing it should be decently smooth. lift is just under .5 for intake and just at.5 for exhaust, duration is somewhere around 244 had.5

megladon did you have the same issue with your magnum rockers ( clearance of the socket on the adjusting nut of the rocker or anything)? also what exactly is zero lash, is it when the rocker doesnt wiggle at all or is it only when the push rod doesnt move ? again we were taught do do these things while the engine was running in school.

 

[megaladon6]

i did have the clearance problem on the rockers. i use craftsmen sockets which are a little bit thin so it wasn't too bad. i did have to hold the tool at just the right angle though, with the engine running.
i found my instructions and i was wrong they said 1/2, a buddy of mine suggested 1/4 turn because i couldn't get the car to idle right. (wound up mostly being a bad carb)
best way to do the adjustment is to run the engine to warm it up, then pull the v-covers. manually turning the engine to each cylinder watch the exhaust valve open then close. go at least 30 degrees past when the valve closes to ensure that it's on the base circle. now both valves for that cylinder are ready. then slowly open up the lash until you can move the pushrod up and down. wait 10sec to make sure that the spring in the lifter has time to fully extend. then SLOWLY take up the lash, spinning the pushrod with your fingers and moving it vertically. first you'll feel it stop moving up and down. now you have to really pay attention to how easy it spins..a tiny bit later you'll feel some friction on the rod, this is zero lash. i actually go back and forth here to find the exact spot where it hits zero, 'cause you will go a bit too far the first time. now turn it 1/2 turn. you can also fire the engine up to rebuild pressure in the lifters but you don't have to.
my cam actually has 230/236 duration at .050in lift--less than yours, so yours may have a little chop or even lope.

 

[mebe007]

heres my cam specs. so did you readjust your valves with the engine running. i tried this but the socket kept jamming and killing the engine. i ground down a 5/8 socket pretty thin to improvise with no luck, seems like i might be stuck pre-adjusting them only. ive always liked adjusting them while running, seems to be a little more precise, as you can hear the engines response, also i found out that gm even recommends adjusting valves while the engine is running.

im still trying to find out what was redneck about my first post. perhaps its because i improvised ruing an old socket.

Brand: Edelbrock
Product Line: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cam and Lifter Kits
Part Type: Camshaft and Lifter Kits
Part Number: EDL-7102
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,500-6,500
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 244
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234 int./244 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 308
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 318
Advertised Duration: 308 int./318 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.488 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.510 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.488 int./0.510 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Computer Controlled Compatible: No
Lifters Included: Yes
Lifter Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Valve Springs Included: No
Retainers Included: No
Locks Included: No
Valve Stem Seals Included: No
Timing Chain and Gears Included: No
Assembly Lubricant Included: Yes
Pushrods Included: No
Rocker Arms Included: No
Gaskets Included: No
Quantity: Sold as a kit.

Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 308/318, Lift .488/.510, Chevy, Small Block, Kit

 

[mebe007]

any other tips guys? please keep them coming.

 

[megaladon6]

i tried doing it with the engine runnin, but since it didn't help and it was such a pain in the *ss i went back and re-did it manually.
my cams a 110LSA, 230/236 at 50, 274/286 adv, .487/.490 lift with 1.5: rockers.
you may want to double check the pushrods for straightness.