BUILD THREAD JRP's '87 Regal Thread

[joesregalproject]

...you do still have the '76 buick 350 don't you? All the machine shop needs to do is bore, finish hone, and install cam bearings. I built my SP engine in a weekend after I got it back. Plus, northern auto parts has a screamin deal on a re-ring kit http://www.northernautoparts.com/part/ek-er1066. Gives you an option to buy the intake valley pan as well. With stock heads, if you want about 9.5:1 with the thicker aftermarket gaskets, get the 340p pistons from summit. I spent about 1500 rebuilding my SP engine, although I didn't have to bore it (low mileage engine), and I used the $250 balancer I already had. So, add another $1000-1500 on the cost for pistons, balancer, timing cover, distrubutor (99$ from TA), etc. The ONLY thing you kind of should do, is notch the heater box. You have the later style valve covers, so that allows you slightly more room back there, but it would help. Look at Blake442s 3.8/Th200c to 350 buick swap thread. It also depends on the condition of your body mounts as well.

Edit: I do suggest, not only for you if you go buick, but for anyone, take a file or dremel and remove all the flashing from the lifter valley on any buick engine. Buick was terrible about this. it's one of the few annoyances about Buicks. But after an hour or two of some classic rock and a file, it will be done. I suggest doing it prior to the trip to the machine shop, and shoving a rag underneath to catch most of the chips.

Either way, as said, eager to see the car again.

Well my body mounts are brand new so that should help.

Yep, I still have that 76 SBB. Actually I talked about it not long ago with a machine shop that a buddy of mine recommended to me, the machinist is super meticulous.

Building that engine is an option but I can probably buy something just as good or better that is ready to drop in for around the same price. Still just spitballing, probably be $500 in machine work, $300 for pistons, $300 for a cam set, $200 for the rering kit and $200 for a timing cover from T/A, that's $1500 right there. The heads are already cleaned up, valves lapped and new valve seals installed, so they can probably be run as-is. I have a 750 Q-Jet for it, needs a rebuild but it should be fine.

It's an option.

What did you do for your crank and connecting rods? Also did your block or heads need decked?

MrSony, I wish I had you here yelling in my ear to get that engine rebuilt, I'd have probably had it done a long time ago.

 

[MrSony]

Well my body mounts are brand new so that should help.

Yep, I still have that 76 SBB. Actually I talked about it not long ago with a machine shop that a buddy of mine recommended to me, the machinist is super meticulous.

Building that engine is an option but I can probably buy something just as good or better that is ready to drop in for around the same price. Still just spitballing, probably be $500 in machine work, $300 for pistons, $300 for a cam set, $200 for the rering kit and $200 for a timing cover from T/A, that's $1500 right there. The heads are already cleaned up, valves lapped and new valve seals installed, so they can probably be run as-is. I have a 750 Q-Jet for it, needs a rebuild but it should be fine.

It's an option.

What did you do for your crank and connecting rods? Also did your block or heads need decked?

MrSony, I wish I had you here yelling in my ear to get that engine rebuilt, I'd have probably had it done a long time ago.

Both my engines, I left the crank and rods as is. I did make sure to put them back where they went, though. Then again, I had the benefit of knowing both engines were in good health before being pulled and left to sit. I used standard size sealed power bearings that come in that kit on the rods and mains. My "Red Motor" ended up being .0018 on the rods and mains (.00175 is factory minumum). My "Blue Motor ended up being .002. Factory max bearing clearance is .0025. That larger .0025 clearance is as large as you want to go under naturally aspirated conditions, staying under 5500rpm. The stock bottom ends are good for ~500hp, or 6,000rpm extended use (NA) with stock bolts and what not. Buick used high nickle content iron in all their stuff from the late 60s onwards, so the cranks are essentially nodular iron. There are also plenty of people pushing 1000hp on boost with stock cranks and rods as well. Aftermarket rods are available, but are largely unnecessary. I used my stock rod and main bolts, but ARP variants are available. My blue motor I used head studs because the head bolts were rusty and pitted. The Red Motor's bolts were almost brand new looking, so I used them. Only cut enough off the heads to true them up, if you feel like it. From the factory mid-late 70s Buick pistons sit in the hole quite a bit, and aftermarket companies largely assume everyone will chop 1/4" off their block so the pistons generally sit a bit lower than stock in the bores at TDC. Nothing more than what would be considered a half point in compression, if that bothers you. Buick engines construction wise are very stout, it won't bother them one bit if you just slap it together, IF the bearing clearances, and oil pump is set up correctly. As for decking, I didn't on either of mine. On my blue motor, they did the heads so they did whatever they did to clean up the gasket surfaces, as well as the block. My Red Motor I used a green/blue(?) roloc disc, whatever the "weakest" one is, on a right angle air grinder to clean up the surfaces. Is it the "right way" to do it? No. Does it matter? Not really. To really determine if your engine should be decked, slap some rods and pistons and the crank back in to see how far they are down in the hole, and in relation to eachother. If the front 2 are in the hole .050 (general buick spec), and the rears are in .055, well that means it's got an upward rearward slope in the deck. Could be production tolerance, whatever. Is it enough to warrant a decking? No, not really. Anything under .010 I don't bother with. I do firmly think you will be fine though, putting it back together without decking, just a surface cleanup to ensure gasket seal. I could sit here all day, but I think I've answered your questions.


And before anyone brings it up, yes my Blue Motor died. BUT, it's %1000 my fault. I didn't put the oil galley plugs in. but hey, it broke in with ZERO oil pressure, drove a few miles, fixed it, 60psi cold idle, 30psi hot, 15 at 800rpm idle after a highway blast. 60psi at 5,000rpm. Ran for 5500 miles before eating the bearings. If I had the plugs in there, I firmly believe it would still be running.

 

[MrSony]

And if that 750 Qjet you mention is the one that came with your engine, I believe it should be 800cfm. Look down the primary bores. It's number is probably something along the lines of 17056241 o
or similar.

 

[joesregalproject]

And if that 750 Qjet you mention is the one that came with your engine, I believe it should be 800cfm. Look down the primary bores. It's number is probably something along the lines of 17056241 o
or similar.

I thought it was a 750 but I'll have to check, it could be an 800. No idea if it's the original or not.

For $100 the machine shop said he'd go over the entire thing and tell me everything that needs done and give me exact prices on anything I want done, so maybe that's a good next step. I can probably drop everything off tomorrow.

Meanwhile I will be keeping an eye out for any engines on Craigslist.

 

[MrSony]

I thought it was a 750 but I'll have to check, it could be an 800. No idea if it's the original or not.

For $100 the machine shop said he'd go over the entire thing and tell me everything that needs done and give me exact prices on anything I want done, so maybe that's a good next step. I can probably drop everything off tomorrow.

Meanwhile I will be keeping an eye out for any engines on Craigslist.

I do know it's a Buick carb, the throttle arm gives it away.

 

[joesregalproject]

So I found a complete, good running 1972 small block buick 350 2 BBL, with a good TH350 that was in a Jeep (yes the trans is 2WD). The guy pulled it because he wanted to make the Jeep 4wd, and couldn't find a BOP 4wd transmission, so he pulled the motor and trans and switched to a Chevy. He wants $400 for it.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Buy it, clean it up a little, put my 4 bbl carb and intake on it and just run it. Maybe stab a cam in it after a while, but for now let's just get it in the car and get it up and running.

Only thing is this engine and trans are 5 hours away from me. Still not to worry, I don't mind taking a road trip to get them. I guess I'm gonna take a trip this week or next to get it. Not sure if I want to take the truck or the Subaru. The Subaru would be a little overloaded but I think I trust it a little more to get me there and back.

 

[DRIVEN]

Yes, do it. I think you'd be much happier with the way the car performs than with a limp TBI swap.
BTW, beautiful color, in case you hadn't heard.

 

[joesregalproject]

Yes, do it. I think you'd be much happier with the way the car performs than with a limp TBI swap.
BTW, beautiful color, in case you hadn't heard.

I think it will work out well. The car is already set up for a Buick motor, I can reuse my motor mounts, fuel lines, potentially even my radiator. Plus I basically have a parts motor for it plus all the extra parts from my 3.8 V6 that I kept, so lots of spare parts for it. I'm not chasing after a ton of power or anything right now, I just want a get the car moving down the road and have presentable looking engine bay.

And thanks, lol I really like how the paint came out myself.

 

[MrSony]

Sounds like a plan, man. '72 are about 8.5:1 maybe less. You can probably run it on mid grade with the stock cam. Buicks heads are hardened, so they never need to have hardened seats installed. Regular gasoline suits them just fine. Im sure the intakes will swap. Make sure you get a new valley pan gasket and it's end seals. I don't use RTV on the port areas, but you can use it around the water ports if you like. Make sure to goop some on the corners of the end seal where they meet the heads. Stock Buick intakes sit too high on the china rail to just use a goop of RTV instead of the seals. There are dowel pins as well to hold the seals in place. While you have the engines both out, measure how much the gears protrude from the pump cavity in the timing cover on both of the engines. TA sells standard volume oil pump kits, steel thrust plates, adjustable pressure regulators, and a shim kit to get the clearances juuuuust right. Factory spec is anywhere from .002-.004. say the gears are .005 out of the hole, use a .007 shim gasket (or combo of shims) to attain .002 clearance. You want it as tight as you can get it without binding spinnng it by hand. TA covers come this way, and are machined just so that they don't really need any shims at all. The 72 will probably have a points distributor, you can either use the HEI you have, or again TA sells brand spankin new units with a decent curve built into them for $99 as of writing this. Their business is small enough, their prices fluctuate on stock and demand. REPLACE THE TIMING SET. Buicks used that stupid nylon cam gear. It breaks up over time and ends up in the pan. TA sells some, Cloyes sells some, comp sells some, take your pick. Just replace it while you can. The timing gears on Buick 350s, 455s, RWD v6s are all keyed, they only go on one way.

 

[joesregalproject]

Sounds like a plan, man. '72 are about 8.5:1 maybe less. You can probably run it on mid grade with the stock cam. Buicks heads are hardened, so they never need to have hardened seats installed. Regular gasoline suits them just fine. Im sure the intakes will swap. Make sure you get a new valley pan gasket and it's end seals. I don't use RTV on the port areas, but you can use it around the water ports if you like. Make sure to goop some on the corners of the end seal where they meet the heads. Stock Buick intakes sit too high on the china rail to just use a goop of RTV instead of the seals. There are dowel pins as well to hold the seals in place. While you have the engines both out, measure how much the gears protrude from the pump cavity in the timing cover on both of the engines. TA sells standard volume oil pump kits, steel thrust plates, adjustable pressure regulators, and a shim kit to get the clearances juuuuust right. Factory spec is anywhere from .002-.004. say the gears are .005 out of the hole, use a .007 shim gasket (or combo of shims) to attain .002 clearance. You want it as tight as you can get it without binding spinnng it by hand. TA covers come this way, and are machined just so that they don't really need any shims at all. The 72 will probably have a points distributor, you can either use the HEI you have, or again TA sells brand spankin new units with a decent curve built into them for $99 as of writing this. Their business is small enough, their prices fluctuate on stock and demand. REPLACE THE TIMING SET. Buicks used that stupid nylon cam gear. It breaks up over time and ends up in the pan. TA sells some, Cloyes sells some, comp sells some, take your pick. Just replace it while you can. The timing gears on Buick 350s, 455s, RWD v6s are all keyed, they only go on one way.

Holy hell man you're spending my money for me and I don't even have it yet! Lol

Yeah I plan on doing the T/A oiling mods. The timing set is no big deal, just hopefully the cover comes off without giving me a hard time. It already has an HEI distributor on it, so I'm probably just gonna put a cap and rotor on it. I have several spare coils laying around if the one on it is bad. Im gonna change some other gaskets and little stuff too, but one thing at a time now, lets just get it home and on a stand.