Modernized

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Probelm is most of those aftermarket EFI systems are not designed to be smog legal, no provisions for controlling EGR or EVAP. Every US car after 1980 are computer controlled and would already have a O2 sensor bung installed in the stock exhaust. Of course many rip out the computer and stock exhaust. Most LS retrofits I have seen are not legal since the LS's emission system are usually delete. Even the LS EFI is often removed for a carb, rendering the swap illegal. Though GM does sell the LS3 E rod crate engines that comes with everything needed to make a LS retrofit legal.

Except for the 23 deg heads, LS motors have no advantage that can't also be used in a Gen 1 Chevy V8. Even the 23 deg heads do not offer much of an advantage.

My '81 Malibu did not have a computer or O2. And the Gen 1 Small block uses 23 degreee heads. And stock vs. stock the (15 degree?) heads of the LSx engines walk all over Gen 1 heads.[/quot

In 1980, all CA cars were mandated to have computer control, but not the other 49. In 1981 all cars for the other 49 were mandated by the Clean Air Act requirements for 1981 to have computer control. This marks 1980 being the last year you could buy a non computer car in the US. So either you have a 1980 non CA car or a 1981 car from out of the US, or a PO removed the computer.

You are correct and I did goof about the number of degrees, but what I said still holds true. 15 degree hands do not offer much of an advantage over 23 degree heads. As for flow, that is only a part of the equation, and not the sole factor in how much power a head can make. Their are heads that bench flow more, but still produce less power than poorer flowing heads. Even then, the best LS heads don't outflow the best SBC heads by that much, not enough that can't be overcome though other areas anyway.

 

[JDMitch32]

Seems I've struck a nerve. Let me throw another of my two cents worth into the ring. I am no mechanical engineer by any means but, I have owned a few vehicles in my life. With and without smog and yearly NC inspections. Had friends working at the Stations so I got away without having the equipment BUT because I always kept them running correctly, I always passed the sniffer test. Used to be if it came with it then you had to have it. Even though you had some oddball models in the late '70s that came with it and others that didn't. My '76 Short Wheelbase Chevy Van did but my ex's Grand-Pa's GMC didn't. Her '76 Malibu only had a Cat where her Sister's '75 Montie had all kinds of stuff. Keep in mind that these all came from NC and were one or two family owner cars. My Father-in-Law knew where they all came from. Now if you have anything older than 25 years you don't have to have yearly inspections. They have come to realize that anything that old is not gonna be driven daily and will, in all likelihood, be like most of you guy's cars. Maintained in top running order and driven for special occasions or weekend drives.
I'm not so sure about new EFIs not being smog legal. Most that I have looked into claim to be at least 49 state legal. I don't think most LS swaps being done are switching to Carbs anymore either. That's why every swap manual and mechanic tells you to get all the wiring and computer if you can. Besides, what makes the LS so much better than the Gen I is efficiency. Same as the Vortec heads swapped onto the Gen I. Sure you can build the Gen I to make the same kind of power, 50+ years of development goes a long way, but it wouldn't be as streetable at the same level as the LS. Don't get me wrong, I flat love the Gen I and I can live with a loppy cam, headers, Carb and a set of Cherry Bombs. There is nothing that sounds sweeter to me, but ask the "kids" today and they'll say the exact same thing about the stuff coming from Detroit now.

 

[pencero]

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/cto/3757204735.html

someone should try to cop this for like $200 and drop it on a frame as a joke lol

 

[67rstbkt]

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/cto/3757204735.html

someone should try to cop this for like $200 and drop it on a frame as a joke lol

Why?

 

[jrm81bu]

In 1980, all CA cars were mandated to have computer control, but not the other 49. In 1981 all cars for the other 49 were mandated by the Clean Air Act requirements for 1981 to have computer control. This marks 1980 being the last year you could buy a non computer car in the US. So either you have a 1980 non CA car or a 1981 car from out of the US, or a PO removed the computer.

You are correct and I did goof about the number of degrees, but what I said still holds true. 15 degree hands do not offer much of an advantage over 23 degree heads. As for flow, that is only a part of the equation, and not the sole factor in how much power a head can make. Their are heads that bench flow more, but still produce less power than poorer flowing heads. Even then, the best LS heads don't outflow the best SBC heads by that much, not enough that can't be overcome though other areas anyway.

I have an '81 that was built in the US. I can't speak for it's entire life but i've known the car since I was in school. The previous owners even had a replacement 3.8 put in shortly before I got it. But It's hard to say what might have happened before they got it.

I still disagree with you about the heads. You have bone stock gen3 engines in trucks making more than 400hp. Throw a cam and headers on it and your capable of 500+ on untouched heads. You will not do that with a gen1. And don't say it the fuel injection, cause you can do it with a carb as well. No don't forget there is also stock aluminum blocks, won't find that with a gen1. Also cross bolted mains, not there on a gen1. The factory bottom end has been proven to be quite stout. But ya, i dont see any advantages either, lol.

 

[pencero]

Bc it would be like a 'modernized' hot rod in the opposite fashion & someone here has all the parts/time/money to make it happen idk. + ford parts are just too slow I thought we were all GM guys in here?! What could be funnier than making a fast car out of a really nice body ford failed to do anything w. My grandpa had an ls like that and the 3.9 v8 was terrible those engines are pathetic and have stupid computers too

 

[67rstbkt]

Bc it would be like a 'modernized' hot rod in the opposite fashion & someone here has all the parts/time/money to make it happen idk. + ford parts are just too slow I thought we were all GM guys in here?! What could be funnier than making a fast car out of a really nice body ford failed to do anything w. My grandpa had an ls like that and the 3.9 v8 was terrible those engines are pathetic and have stupid computers too

That would just make it a hot rod in my book I'm a GM guy, but I do not discriminate. I have an F-250 powerstroke and a subaru. I've also owned a Toyota and a Mercedes in the past. I'm all for using the best parts from whomever as long as it fits my needs. On my 67 Firebird, I kept the Poncho motor, with a few upgrades of course. I put a T-56 that came out of a Dodge Viper, and I just got to narrowing the Ford 9 for it. The brakes will be C5 front, LS1 rears. The seats are out of an 06 GTO. Blasphemy to some, but my interpretation of modern muscle. The car was all rusted out when I picked it up, so I don't feel too bad about it.

 

[85GPLef41]

I'm all for "modernizing" any old school.. I am doing that to my GP now!! I do think some rides need to stay carbed to retain the feel and look. But whatever the owner want to do its all good! :wink:

 

[DRIVEN]

Bc it would be like a 'modernized' hot rod in the opposite fashion & someone here has all the parts/time/money to make it happen idk. + ford parts are just too slow I thought we were all GM guys in here?! What could be funnier than making a fast car out of a really nice body ford failed to do anything w. My grandpa had an ls like that and the 3.9 v8 was terrible those engines are pathetic and have stupid computers too

WTF are you even talking about?

Blasphemy to some, but my interpretation of modern muscle.

That pretty much sums up the whole hobby. Unless your car has every bit of factory equipment, it's in a constant state of modernization. This site (and others like it) would be awfully boring if nobody deviated from stock. My car build is basically a 1979 theme -- in appearance, at least. However, even though there was no overdrive option in '79, I felt it was a mandatory upgrade. We all like modern sound systems too. Thanks to a competitive aftermarket it's now easy to add EFI and still keep the general appearance of having a carb. The list goes on. We all make them our own.

 

[G-Body_Vet]

I like a mix of muscle with some modern updates. I'd love to go EFI and aluminum heads on my 455 if budget allows later on. Everything from highway driving, cold weather performance, reliability, and ease of troubleshooting have come a long way. There's no reason not to take advantage when you replace something if you can afford it.

We already use a lot of modern things anyway when we build our cars. Brake upgrades, serpentine conversions, OD transmissions, aluminum radiators, electric fans, better tires, over-sized wheels, aftermarket ignitions, etc.

In the end it boils down to what you want to do with your car I suppose.