Octane Booster

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64nailhead

Goat Herder
Dec 1, 2014
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Regarding the octane booster - that stuff on the auto parts store shelf is snake oil. Raising you octane .1 of an octane number is a waste. If you wanted to have a real test of this, then get your tank to 1/2 or so and buy a gallon of C16 and put it in. That should put 91-93 pump into high 90’s. Not a cheap solution, but a cheap test considering a gallon should cost $9-15 depending on the supplier.
 
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Ernest

G-Body Guru
Apr 28, 2016
745
1,011
93
Texas
Thanks for all the suggestions.

Apparently, im not the only one having pinging issues with these ZZ4 engines, it seems to be a common theme amongst quite a few of us, im blaming this mess mailnly on the large quench(.025 + .051) area.

I'll have to get more info from the progressive ignition distributor APP next time i have a chance to drive the car, taking note of the vac reading, rpm, etc when the pinging hits, and i'll bump the timing down 2* and see if that has any effect.
 
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maxi426

Apprentice
Sep 20, 2018
87
87
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Confirm the accuracy of the timing mark on your balancer with a piston stop. Your actual timing may not be where you think it is.
 
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Ernest

G-Body Guru
Apr 28, 2016
745
1,011
93
Texas
Took the malibu out for a drive today.... just speed limit(65mph) hwy cruising, some easy on the throttle accelerated runs on the street, but no WOT runs, refilled with 93octane, no booster yet.

Dropped the total timing from 32* to 30*, no change on pinging, pinging starts when vacuum drops to 7hg under light load, i kept on the throttle for a couple more seconds and see it drop to 5hg, the pinging persists, so i know the 6.5hg power valve has to be opening up.

I still need to verify TDC/piston location, but i think i might have found whats causing the lean condition, when i got home, parked the car, and kept the engine idleing, then i opened the hood and i noticed my see through fuel filter looked about half full. thats quit the air bubble IMO, but shouldnt it be completely full at all times if the fuel pump was working correctly?

I havent checked the fuel pressure yet, i need to find an adapter that i can splice into the fuel line between the carb and filter, attach one of those small(1.5'') 15psi round fuel pressure guage to verify whats going on, but this is lQQking like the fuel pump its not supplying the carb with enough fuel to keep up, lean out the carb, lean out the engine, the 10:1 compression temps get higher, pre-ignition starts and there you go.

Heres a few pics of the after run... the progression ignition APP, the fuel filter whie engine is idleing, the stock looking fuel pump and the #1 spark plug at two different angles.
 

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69hurstolds

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Jan 2, 2006
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If you want an octane booster that actually does something, you could try Torco Accelerator. A single quart can will boost 20 gallons to +4 octane. Or 10 gallons +11 points according to the mix table. Comes in 32 oz. can, but obviously use what you need. A bit pricey though, at a bit over $20 per quart, but it does work. The camaro crowd likes it when racing gas is kinda hard to get and they're taking the car for road courses or plain drag racing. Most sneak up on the knock sensor to get the right mix that suits them.

I've used a 1/2 can on about 10 gallons in the tank of the ZL1 and there is a slight seat of the pants difference with or without it. But I run BP premium in it and it's good quality gas to begin with. Not a panacea, but it's not worthless.
 
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64nailhead

Goat Herder
Dec 1, 2014
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Upstate NY
You don’t need to take out total timing. You need to take out timing where it’s pinging. If it’s at 5-7” of hg, then what rpm? What ever that rpm is in that range, then pull the timing only there and in the cells directly next to that.

Do you know the conversion for inches of hg to kpa?
 
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Ernest

G-Body Guru
Apr 28, 2016
745
1,011
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Texas
Running octane booster would be a last resort.

Im still learning with this APP, so i have no clue what im doing atm besides just taking notes on the readings and going from there. Unfortunately, i didnt have a look at the RPM as well when it started to ping, all i know is that i was already in OD(45mph+), when i decided to accelerate more from there, the pinging started. So if i had to guestimate the RPM, it had to be between 1600rpm-1800rpm(45mph-50mph), all i was fixated on was the vacuum reading, so when it dropped to 7hg, it started to ping and i continued on for a moment till it saw it drop to 5hg, then i let off the throttle.

To me, this makes absolutely no sense for this engine to be running lean causing this pinging issue when the carburator has been taken apart,cleaned, rebuilt, and richened up as much as it is, the vacuum drops low enough for the installed 6.5hg power valve is opening mid throttle on accelerating, and at this point, the vacsec dont open up till im at WOT. The 770cfm is more than adequet to feed this engine. Even the plugs shouldnt look this lean with the amount of jetting i went up on IMO, i just need to do further testing, first, to see what the fuel pressure is, at idle at least, if its below spec, then out with the old, and in with the new and i'll make sure its rated for 6psi max, its all the carb/eng will need.

Im starting over diagnosing engines per say.... last hotrod i owned was a 1975 chevelle back in the early 90s, it still had the a/c and heater intact, totally unmolested, till i removed it all to lose some weight. I sold the original 350 2bolt main that was in it, found a long block standard bore 350 4bolt main from a 1975 el camino, had it cleaned, checked and bored .030 over, stock 3.48 cast crank, stock 5.7 rods, arp hardware throughout. I reused the 882 76cc smog heads, cleaned and checked, put in stainless valves, kept the 1.94int but went 1.6 on the exhaust, then had them pocket ported, milled for screw in 3/8" rocker studs and guide plates. I went with hypereutectic flat top 4valve relief pistons, moly rings, comp cams 270h hydraulic flat tappet cam(224 I/E - .470 I/E - 110LSA), comp cams 1.52 roller tip rockers, performer rpm intake, holley 750vacsec(3310-2), stock build HEI, headman 1 5/8" full length headers with 3" collector, true dual 2 1/2" exhaust to tail pipes with flow master 40series mufflers. Stock rebuilt TH350 with b&m shift kit for firmer shifts, TCI flexplate and 2000rpm 12" converter, 8.5" rear diff with brand new original GM 4:10 gear w/posi with actual bolt in axels, non c-clip. a mystery find in a 1976 malibu 4dr car with posi from the factory, installed a 160F thermostat, a 4core radiator made for big block chevy engines with a/c and auto trans. The engine was basically an iron headed 9:1 engine using .041" felpro head gaskets, not a single issue, no pinging, detonation, knocking whatsoever, easily revved to 5500rpm, consistant 14.40s at the 1/4 track back in the day and cutting .509 lights, i knew this car well, used stock carb jetting(72front/75rear with metering block conversion, original metering plate was rated for 75jets), along with a quick change secondary spring kit using the short yellow spring, i bought the car back in 1993, i was the 3rd owner, and i kept the car till 2009, then sold it off. Good Times
 

motorheadmike

Geezer
Nov 18, 2009
8,976
27,522
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Saskatchewan, Truckistan
Obviously this is a mechanical/tuning issue, not an octane issue. Pretty obvious when and where more octane (slower controlled ignition) is needed.

Here is a horrific review, but a complete-ish list of options:


Obviously there is the base fuel options:


And then the injectables (this part of a series):


Some of of my favourite octane boosters are propane and methanol injection. I use these almost exclusively in one form or another. I have used Torco Accelerator, and have VP Madditive on the shelf. Boostane is super popular out this way too.
 
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Ernest

G-Body Guru
Apr 28, 2016
745
1,011
93
Texas
Is your ZZ4 using an EGR intake?
Same exact intake thats on my ZZ4.... but the EGR and HEATED CHOKE passages are blocked off with plates. (pictured)

Other than the suggestions for a good octane booster....so noone takes notice of the fuel level in the see through fuel filter while the engine is idleing and possibly suggests the fuel pump may be to blame for my lean issue. Figure if the fuel pump cant keep up with the demand of the engine, much less keeping the carb fuel bowls full at all times, a lean condition issue could arise?

This whole ordeal reeks of a fuel delivery issue IMO, but of course i dont have a fuel pressure guage to confirm that, just what i think im seeing of the fuel level in the see through fuel filter at engine idle. I have no history on this engine, so who knows how long its been running in the malibu, or the true mileage on the motor, for all i know, the fuel pump is on its way out, still working for sure, but not to its full potential like a brand new unit, all i need is 6psi, and im golden,
 

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