smog

[85t5mcss]

GM has had ECMs since 78. A/G Bodies didn't get them at first, but not sure when it started. They didn't do much anyways. Con lockup, run the O2 sensor and CCC carbs.

 

[joe_padavano]

GM has had ECMs since 78. A/G Bodies didn't get them at first, but not sure when it started. They didn't do much anyways. Con lockup, run the O2 sensor and CCC carbs.

I have a 1978 Chevy Factory Service Manual in front of me as I write this and there are no computer controls on any of the car lines that year. I also have a 1982 Olds FSM and the CCC carb WAS used that year on both the V6 and the 307. Do you know which 78s used the CCC?

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

GM used a few different computer setups in the early years of computer controls. The earliest GM EFI was in 1975 and was on the Cosworth Vega( multiport EFI), and maybe on select Cadillacs, where the 500's got TBI in the mid or late 70's. The earliest system used in G bodies was not the CCC system ( Computer Control Command), but the C4 system ( Computer Controlled Catalytic Converter)in 1980. It does not have a TPS, but does have the MC solenoid. I looked at one a few weeks ago, and noticed this anomaly. BTW, the first use of EFI on a passenger car was in either 1957 or 1958 on the Chrysler 392 Hemi. Fewer than 100 were made and were recalled shortly afterwards as the system was not potted, and the behind the grille mounting of the ECM got waterlogged and shorted out.( Other firsts: ABS in 1972 by Mopar, GM had airbags optional in 1976, IIRC)

 

[84H/O]

C4

Yes C4 is correct, there is even a little brochure that talks about, that i got with the owners manual with the car. what is a "MC Solenoid"? In reference to something mentioned before, I am going to upgrade the axle, I am going to this car show and swap meet this weekend called Iola, or thats what people from around here called, its in Iola WI, 15 acres of cars and parts, so anyway im going to try to find a 12 bolt cheap, what kind of price range should i expect and should i even attempt to find one and mod it for the application?

BTW-thanks for everyones input it has already helped tremendosly!

 

[joe_padavano]

GM used a few different computer setups in the early years of computer controls. The earliest GM EFI was in 1975 and was on the Cosworth Vega( multiport EFI), and maybe on select Cadillacs, where the 500's got TBI in the mid or late 70's.

You're correct on the Cosworth, but I believe the Caddy system you're thinking of is the port injection system introduced in 1975 on the 350 Olds motor used in the new-for-that-year Seville. Recall that the original Seville was RWD and based on the Nova platform. That particular EFI used an analog computer and a crappy manifold that flowed worse than the 2bbl carb manifold. Several people have converted these to digital computers using the Megasquirt and other ECUs. Still doesn't fix the intake problem, however.

The earliest system used in G bodies was not the CCC system (Computer Control Command), but the C4 system ( Computer Controlled Catalytic Converter)in 1980. It does not have a TPS, but does have the MC solenoid. I looked at one a few weeks ago, and noticed this anomaly.

Didn't know that, thanks. I always thought 1981 was the first year.

BTW, the first use of EFI on a passenger car was in either 1957 or 1958 on the Chrysler 392 Hemi. Fewer than 100 were made and were recalled shortly afterwards as the system was not potted, and the behind the grille mounting of the ECM got waterlogged and shorted out.

Electronics by Bendix. Offered in 1958 and installed on 35 cars, to be exact. The problem was the paper electrolytic capacitors in the computer that controlled the system. Almost all of the cars had the EFI system replaced with carbs. I read an article in one of the Chrysler mags a few years ago about the restoration of one of these cars. Every single capacitor in the computer had to be replaced with modern plastic versions. The car now runs correctly.

(Other firsts: ABS in 1972 by Mopar, GM had airbags optional in 1976, IIRC)

Actually, Oldsmobile offered the Tru-Track ABS on the Toronado for the 1971 model year. It operated on the rear wheels only (which was probably appropriate given the amount of weight on the front wheels with the 455 motor and FWD trans!). The airbag system was offered in 1974-75 on full size Olds, Buick, and Caddy cars.

 

[85t5mcss]

. Do you know which 78s used the CCC?

Sorry, didn't actually mean that 78s had CCC. I was just groupnh it all together. 78 TAs had an ECM (friends car still has it). I didn't realize that ABS and some of the other notables have been around that long. Good read for info on that stufff. So who has the answer on the first supercharger and what it was used on.

 

[joe_padavano]

[So who has the answer on the first supercharger and what it was used on.

Are you talking about the Studebaker R2 and R3 motors, or prewar stuff like the blower Bentley from the 1930s?

 

[85t5mcss]

Don't know, I just know they have been around longer than me and my parents. :shock:

 

[joe_padavano]

Don't know, I just know they have been around longer than me and my parents. :shock:

Stop. You're making ME feel old! 😳

Seriously, I don't recall if the Stude predated the supercharged 312 in the T-bird or not.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

The Stude came about in 1961 or 62 IIRC, the T bird was available with the Paxton blown 312 Y block in 1957. The "Thunderbird" blown 312 ( all HiPo 312's came with the T bird's special valve covers, just like all AMC 390's were labeled AMX 390's in 1968) was also available in the Ford sedans that year, so it is not a T bird specific engine. BTW, the world's first production turbocharged car title is split by two GM divisions in 2 different cars in 1962. Both the Oldsmobile F-85 Jetfire (turbo aluminum 215 V8, front engine, rear drive, maybe rear transaxle like the Pontiac Tempest of that year) and the Chevy Corvair Monza Spyder ( rear engine, rear drive, all aluminum turbo'd flat six) had a turbo. Oh, and Bentley is not the only car company to use a supercharger in the 1930's as Auburn/Cord as well as Mercedes Benz had it in use on some of their cars during the period.Who was first? I don't really know for sure, but the first application may have dated back further than the 1930's as there were several innovative technologies being used dating back to the teens, including overhead cams. (I could research it in my library, but I am too lazy to go into the other room..😛 )The Cord 810/812, interestingly, was front wheel drive, but my memory fails me in remembering if it predates the Citroen Traction Avant as the world's first production FWD car, but I know the Citroen was the first unibody car. The first unibody, transverse engined front wheel drive car was the 1959 Austin Mini,/Morris Mini Minor which was produced in it's original form until 1999, when BMW bought Mini from the death of the Rover group( Which included: Rover, Land Rover, Range Rover, MG and Mini), and with it, the death of British ownership of it's indigenous automotive industry.Although an attempt was made to revive MG afterwards, it fell into insolvency the last I heard, and Chinese company was trying to buy it for it's name.

Oh, for the record, I am aware of the TBI used on the Seville's Olds 350, but the 500 had a TBI system in the latter part of the 1970's too as I have seen a few in my years of hanging out in junkyards ( I go to 3 or 4 a week on my day off). The Seville's may predate it by a year or two, and it may have been optional on the big Cad, that I do not know. Then again, GM did downsize the big Caddys in 1977 and downsized the engine to a 425 ( later to the 368 of 1980-81, 81 with "Variable Displacement"), so the EFI 500 must have been 75 or 76. Sorry, I am writing in a stream of consciousness and can tend to ramble...