Today I got around to grinding the 2 bolts that hold in the upper backseat cushion. The seat belts I am talking about. I come to find out I have rust in just about every seam in the back of the car. From around the 1/4s and wheel wells, and also around the ???? panel, I dont know what it is called< its above the rear axel though. I will call it the axel panel, can you even buy that panel, I dont see it online? Any how looks like after my paint job this summer I still wont have a rust free car. I wonder if it is even worth the price of one day replacing 1/4 panels, trunk panel, floor panel, and the ???? panel. sh*t on ebay there are montes cheaper and better then mine. My Monte does run well though and all, I guess its all about preference, What is your peoples ideas?? I know floor panels alone will run me about 1100 at the body shop with the cost of buying addes in, I dont know about trunk, 1/4s and sh*t. Im already spending 300 to fix outside rust to have the car prepped up to be painted.
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Can you take pics? If not, how bad is it on a scale of 1-10 (10 being rusted through and holes in your floor). I can help you out with treating the rust and patching the steel and some other guys on here can too (instead of buying new floor panels).
Ok, assuming the rust isn't through the floor, here is what you need to do. (suggestions help here)
I would start with gutting the interior, a lot of work, yes. But if you're going to do it, it should be done right.
Take everything out (except the dash, there will probably be some rust on the mounting brackets of the dash, but it isn't worth breaking the foam or parts). Everything means seats, carpet, pads, panels, seat belts, headliner, etc.
You might be surprised at the shape your car is in, but no worries. Go buy some 220 grit wet dry sandpaper (where I live it's cheapest at autozone). Sand down your floor panels where the rust is to bare metal, sand the rest of the floor panels to the primer (or just feather it to be even if there are good spots). Anywhere there is rust, sand it down. Keep it clean by wiping the dirty water up with a rag.
You can get away with the cheap rust cure from an auto parts store - the one in the spray can. If you want the best, buy a pint or more from Eastwood, called rust encapsulator. Then buy some silicone for automobiles at a hardware or auto store. Spread this all the way down the seams of the floor panels after you've cured the rust. (It wouldn't hurt to jack up the car and do the same to the underside of the floor panels, but that is unnecessary) Then just tape up where you want it and spray on primer and spray paint (acrylic enamel for autos).
Take your bolts to an auto or hardware store and buy some grade 8 ones to replace them, (seal them off with locktite and then silicone underneath). Put the pads and carpet back in. Cure the steel on the seats with rust cure (in a can) - after you've taped it off. Spray some primer and paint and bolt everything in - then you're done and have rust free floor panels for another 10-15+ years.
Edit: If there are holes in the floor panels, let me know and I'll tell you how to fix it.
I would start with gutting the interior, a lot of work, yes. But if you're going to do it, it should be done right.
Take everything out (except the dash, there will probably be some rust on the mounting brackets of the dash, but it isn't worth breaking the foam or parts). Everything means seats, carpet, pads, panels, seat belts, headliner, etc.
You might be surprised at the shape your car is in, but no worries. Go buy some 220 grit wet dry sandpaper (where I live it's cheapest at autozone). Sand down your floor panels where the rust is to bare metal, sand the rest of the floor panels to the primer (or just feather it to be even if there are good spots). Anywhere there is rust, sand it down. Keep it clean by wiping the dirty water up with a rag.
You can get away with the cheap rust cure from an auto parts store - the one in the spray can. If you want the best, buy a pint or more from Eastwood, called rust encapsulator. Then buy some silicone for automobiles at a hardware or auto store. Spread this all the way down the seams of the floor panels after you've cured the rust. (It wouldn't hurt to jack up the car and do the same to the underside of the floor panels, but that is unnecessary) Then just tape up where you want it and spray on primer and spray paint (acrylic enamel for autos).
Take your bolts to an auto or hardware store and buy some grade 8 ones to replace them, (seal them off with locktite and then silicone underneath). Put the pads and carpet back in. Cure the steel on the seats with rust cure (in a can) - after you've taped it off. Spray some primer and paint and bolt everything in - then you're done and have rust free floor panels for another 10-15+ years.
Edit: If there are holes in the floor panels, let me know and I'll tell you how to fix it.
ok ill get more detailed here
Yeah a lot of ya guys know me on here, Cutty Brougham talked to me too. I just lost my job for the 3rd time now, fired 3 times Im not cut out for manufacturing jobs I guess. Off that topic so yeah I have a lot of time on my hands now. Thats why I said F it I got lots I can do now. So in more detail here it goes:
Floor panels the drivers side front has a couple that are about the size of pebbles other then that its all surface sh*t but we all know that even the surface rust is bad because the metal here is pretty chinzy. On the passenger side its the opposite, its the back area another few small pebble holes nothin huge though.
Then the area I said I dont know, ??? is that still floor panel where the back seat passengers *ss sits??? Towards the wall on both sides there is some rust along the seams everywhere, no its doesnt extend to the outside. Which is good I know!!
Also right where the trunk panel connects to the ???? panel theres a flange which was seperateding, I screwdrivered the hell out of it to reveal more rust which I tried to remove the best i could, it created a pin sized hole, again I think the rust inhibit aresol would be good.
its the same in the 1/4s too it extends just on the very edges where the ???? panel trunk panel and 1/4s all meet, the rust isnt bad at all, but its hard to get rid of ya know, its in those creases right where the stupid Sylacone was that basically just came off with my fingers.
When I painted the trunk I made the mistake of jabbing too much rust out with a screw driver breaking a 2 inch slice out of the trunk. Its only like 1/8 inch high though. I was told to just throw some putty in there though, But Id like to get that fixed correctly if a body shop is even able to get in that area.
I hope this might help a bit more, Id love to post some pics if my brother will let me use his cell phone.
Yeah a lot of ya guys know me on here, Cutty Brougham talked to me too. I just lost my job for the 3rd time now, fired 3 times Im not cut out for manufacturing jobs I guess. Off that topic so yeah I have a lot of time on my hands now. Thats why I said F it I got lots I can do now. So in more detail here it goes:
Floor panels the drivers side front has a couple that are about the size of pebbles other then that its all surface sh*t but we all know that even the surface rust is bad because the metal here is pretty chinzy. On the passenger side its the opposite, its the back area another few small pebble holes nothin huge though.
Then the area I said I dont know, ??? is that still floor panel where the back seat passengers *ss sits??? Towards the wall on both sides there is some rust along the seams everywhere, no its doesnt extend to the outside. Which is good I know!!
Also right where the trunk panel connects to the ???? panel theres a flange which was seperateding, I screwdrivered the hell out of it to reveal more rust which I tried to remove the best i could, it created a pin sized hole, again I think the rust inhibit aresol would be good.
its the same in the 1/4s too it extends just on the very edges where the ???? panel trunk panel and 1/4s all meet, the rust isnt bad at all, but its hard to get rid of ya know, its in those creases right where the stupid Sylacone was that basically just came off with my fingers.
When I painted the trunk I made the mistake of jabbing too much rust out with a screw driver breaking a 2 inch slice out of the trunk. Its only like 1/8 inch high though. I was told to just throw some putty in there though, But Id like to get that fixed correctly if a body shop is even able to get in that area.
I hope this might help a bit more, Id love to post some pics if my brother will let me use his cell phone.
You might also want to take out the small square panels where the seat belts were (for the front) and weld or bolt them back in. This way you can see how much rust is between the outer quarter panel and the inner one. If there isn't much, just spray some rust cure in there and primer also. This is just a suggestion to find how much rust is inside the quarter, but it's not needed.
Anyway, so if you've got the time, go buy some 220 grit and get to work 😀
You'll be happy you did and save the money on shop body work. The old silicone will all need to come out, just scrape it with a screw driver or razor and vacuum or sweep it out. Attack it with some sandpaper and do what was written above. It will come out.
As for the holes, if you aren't good at welding, you might want to have someone else weld it in, but do the prep work yourself. First sand down the panels to metal. Find where the structural integrity is lost beside the hole - for example, if it's a 1/2 inch diameter hole, make a 2X2 inch square hole and a 1/8" steel piece to fit in there. Duck tape underneath or tack weld a piece in there and have a welding guy fix it up like new. Make sure you treat the rust well around this area, also the under side - prime and spray underneath this piece when you're done.
If you sand down the floor panel and the whole thing is trash, then just cut it out and fabricate a piece to fit. Get some steel square tubing and bolt it underneath - one where your feet are, two where the seat bolts in, and wherever else you want (for support). Set your fabricated piece on top. Take it to a welder and have him weld everything in.
The quarters and the rear/trunk panels shouldn't have to be replaced (except maybe where the back seat sits on). They are vertical surfaces so it's not bad if they have a little hole in them. Just make sure you cure it right.
If you cut and fabricate the pieces yourself and do the prep work, you'll save big money. If you need any help, just give a shout out.
Edit: For large holes/panels, use thicker steel than 1/8". You can get this at a scrap metal place, 1/4" is too thick. If they have a size between that's perfect. If not, just go with 1/8" but be sure to put braces underneath with steel tubing.
Anyway, so if you've got the time, go buy some 220 grit and get to work 😀
You'll be happy you did and save the money on shop body work. The old silicone will all need to come out, just scrape it with a screw driver or razor and vacuum or sweep it out. Attack it with some sandpaper and do what was written above. It will come out.
As for the holes, if you aren't good at welding, you might want to have someone else weld it in, but do the prep work yourself. First sand down the panels to metal. Find where the structural integrity is lost beside the hole - for example, if it's a 1/2 inch diameter hole, make a 2X2 inch square hole and a 1/8" steel piece to fit in there. Duck tape underneath or tack weld a piece in there and have a welding guy fix it up like new. Make sure you treat the rust well around this area, also the under side - prime and spray underneath this piece when you're done.
If you sand down the floor panel and the whole thing is trash, then just cut it out and fabricate a piece to fit. Get some steel square tubing and bolt it underneath - one where your feet are, two where the seat bolts in, and wherever else you want (for support). Set your fabricated piece on top. Take it to a welder and have him weld everything in.
The quarters and the rear/trunk panels shouldn't have to be replaced (except maybe where the back seat sits on). They are vertical surfaces so it's not bad if they have a little hole in them. Just make sure you cure it right.
If you cut and fabricate the pieces yourself and do the prep work, you'll save big money. If you need any help, just give a shout out.
Edit: For large holes/panels, use thicker steel than 1/8". You can get this at a scrap metal place, 1/4" is too thick. If they have a size between that's perfect. If not, just go with 1/8" but be sure to put braces underneath with steel tubing.
thanks
yeah its really not all that bad, just the tips of the 1/4s are the worst, im gonna ask the body shop to fix taht small area, shouldnt be too much more then the 300 they are charging me for 3 small holes in the 1/4s already 100 a peice roughly. Thanks for replying so late at night lol. its 2:46 AM here
yeah its really not all that bad, just the tips of the 1/4s are the worst, im gonna ask the body shop to fix taht small area, shouldnt be too much more then the 300 they are charging me for 3 small holes in the 1/4s already 100 a peice roughly. Thanks for replying so late at night lol. its 2:46 AM here
Well, everyone else I am with is drunk, and playing Rock Band, so I will throw in my 2 cents. For $300, you could buy a damn welder and do it yourself. If the car is bad enough, you should do it anyhow as a way to learn the necessary skills. That way, if you start over with another car later, you will know how to do it right. Heck, I learned how on my Cutlass as it was (is?) a POS. Yes, I took over a year on it, but I spent very little actual money. It is not my DD since it is a MAJOR project. Besides, do you really want to beat on a car you put that much work into? Yes, welding is NOT fun ( I rate it in my top 3 least loved projects), but it is very expensive to pay someone else to do it. I made all of my patch panels, some of which I hacked off of junkyard cars with a hacksaw, a cold chisel/BFH combo and a pair of snips. I cut them oversize and trimmed them down. A bit butch, but it works fine. I also hack and cut flat pieces of steel from junk panels so that I have patch metal to use on my projects. I use an old bathroom towel as a shot bag, and some hammers to shape patches with complex shapes ( like floor channels). I have 0% formal training in any of this. I learned from mistakes, and from people who told me why I was a hack and how to be less of one. My advice is to just try it. If the car is a real rust bucket there's not much you can do to screw it up any worse than it already is. If you were local to me, I'd have you come over and help me with my junk so I could show you how. I love to teach this stuff.
Tools needed: MIG or Flux Core welder, angle grinder with cutoff wheel, 3 in mini cutoff, drill and a die grinder. Bonus points for a Dremel for the details, but you can butcher your way through it without one. Also, forget cleco pins. Just get some self tapping sheetmetal screws to hold it together long enough to tack it on an overlapping weld, and a magnet, tape, and some clamps for butt joints. You can even lap join an exterior patch by beating in the edges with a hammer, then tacking the patch in the recess. Mud over it in something other than standard Bondo and it's done. Not the best way, but it works. Most body shops do it that way as they are nothing but a bunch of hacks too. They do not give a damn about you or your car as long as they get paid today. If you want it to last, treat the back side of the repair. Otherwise, it will rot quickly since you just burned off any remaining paint or rustproofing from the other side. In that way, you can do a better job than the shop. As for me, I butt weld all of my exterior patches and paint them from the inside with Rustoleum or zinc chromate. I am also researching a few other treatments I am considering as a finishing touch to my repairs to make them last longer. I may try Waxoyl, which is a product used by the British, and I think it is available through Minimania's website.
Tools needed: MIG or Flux Core welder, angle grinder with cutoff wheel, 3 in mini cutoff, drill and a die grinder. Bonus points for a Dremel for the details, but you can butcher your way through it without one. Also, forget cleco pins. Just get some self tapping sheetmetal screws to hold it together long enough to tack it on an overlapping weld, and a magnet, tape, and some clamps for butt joints. You can even lap join an exterior patch by beating in the edges with a hammer, then tacking the patch in the recess. Mud over it in something other than standard Bondo and it's done. Not the best way, but it works. Most body shops do it that way as they are nothing but a bunch of hacks too. They do not give a damn about you or your car as long as they get paid today. If you want it to last, treat the back side of the repair. Otherwise, it will rot quickly since you just burned off any remaining paint or rustproofing from the other side. In that way, you can do a better job than the shop. As for me, I butt weld all of my exterior patches and paint them from the inside with Rustoleum or zinc chromate. I am also researching a few other treatments I am considering as a finishing touch to my repairs to make them last longer. I may try Waxoyl, which is a product used by the British, and I think it is available through Minimania's website.
85 Brougham got it right, MIG welders are pretty easy to handle without much experience. I found a guy who welds everything I give him for 15$ for small stuff, like the panels and such, and 30$ for big stuff like drive shafts. If you can't find a cheap one like this, it's probably better to do it yourself.
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