The rough plan ....

[jonnyslick]

So ... this is the rough plan of where I'm wanting to go with my Cutlass over the next 18-24 months. If any of you have any suggestions please feel free to put them in here.

Purpose:
Corner carver/Auto-x/Drift/Mean Daily Driver

Engine:
Olds 350 or Chevy 350 with F.I. conversion, or LT1 or LS1 (around 350 - 400 rwhp goal). Headers, X-pipes, 40 series Flows. Vortech supercharger at some point in the future.

Transmission:
5 or 6 speed with www.crossmembers.com dual exhaust transmission mount, ACT clutch upgrade, lightened flywheel.

Suspension:
SC&C Stage Two or AFX front setup, Watts rear, Currietrak control arms, poly bushings, Bilstein shocks with Global West springs or Coilovers done by SC&C. Spohn sway bars, SPC tubular control arms. Custom driveshaft, 12 bolt or Ford 9 inch rear end with 4.10's and limited slip. 13" brakes front, disc conversion rear, proportioning valve, hydraulic rear brake controller. Install quicker ratio steering and try to get a few more degrees of steering angle out of the tie rods. I'm sure SC&C will have an idea for that.

Exterior:
Dark gunmetal gray metallic, fiberglass hood/trunk lid/fenders, carbon fiber (CF) side mirrors, CF rear spoiler, Lauren Engineering rocker set with 442 style front spoiler, FE3X style fender flares, blacked out trim/grill/bumpers, HID projector lights, LED conversion to rear, remove lower rocker factory trim, tinted windows, 17x9 (f) 17x10 (r) mesh rims wrapped in Falken rubber.

Interior:
All black (carpet, dash, headliner, doors, seats, etc), Sparco race buckets with Crow harnesses, 10 pt. roll cage, Race pack digital dash, CD - Flash drive player with mild upgraded speakers, Sparco steering wheel – pedals - shift knob, B&M short shifter, CF trim on dash.

I dunno ... that's where I'm heading with it in the next year and 1/2 or so ... I'm still trying to do as much research on the suspension as possible b/c that is what is giving me the worst headache. So what do you all think? I hope I should be able to pull this off for around $15k give or take $2k or $3k.

 

[CostasCutlass]

Sounds like a solid plan. I'd say try and find a wrecked LS1 Camaro with the manual trans, will probally save some money and make it a little bit easier. Also, I'd go with a Locker over a posi, maybe an E-Locker so you know exactly when it will lock, but thats just my 2-cents. Good Luck with the project and keep us updated.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

If you do not already have Olds power, the Chevy is the easiest path to the power level you desire. My engine ( in my sig) makes about 350-360hp at the crank, and could be duplicated easily enough. As for a differential, a locker is not what you want in a corner carver. You will end up with massive understeer as the wheels need to spin at different speeds around corners, and locking them together will make them try to push the front end in a straight line. The best overall diff for this application would be a Torque Biasing Differential, like the ones Quaife offers. It basically gives you two wheeled traction in the corners while still allowing for a speed differential between the two drive wheels. The next best is a clutch or cone LSD, like what GM used stock, or companies such as Auburn sell. As for a Watts link in the back, it's a good system, but still not as good as a switch to an IRS would be. It is also not cheap to do unless you can find a kit or know how to fabricate. The stock front suspension is a mess as far as the geometry goes, so you will want to concentrate on how to improve it. You can limit movement with really stiff springs, but that will give you handling at the cost of a car that you will hate to drive, and that can break things due to a lack of compliance. Concentrate your efforts on improving chassis stiffness first, and geometry second then use the springs and sway bars to tune the results. Remember that part of the reason people run such stiff springs is that chassis flex allows things to move a round a bit before the springs take effect. If you can stiffen the car, the necessary spring rate is reduced. Also, if the geometry is right, then suspension deflection will not throw the wheel into a position where it loses grip, so you can run softer springs and save cash on chiropractor bills. Also, do not over lower your car!!! This is a easy way to achieve unpredictable handling. You need sufficient compression travel for the car to be able to absorb a mid-corner bump without "jumping" the wheel and causing it to lose contact with the road. A good handling car need not suffer poor ground clearance, or bad ride quality if it is engineered properly. Just be forewarned none of this is cheap, and it is easy to get in over your head ( ask me how I know...). Have a second vehicle to drive while building your Cutlass.

 

[CostasCutlass]

Opps, forgot he wanted a corner carver too, I was just thinking a street/drift car which is why I said locker. 😳

 

[midwestcutlass2008]

Purpose:
Corner carver/Auto-x/Drift/Mean Daily Driver

if you want all that go buy a used WRX, sTi , EVO, heck even an SRT4 it will be faster, more compact, and a tighter setup, with more industry support, and still better fuel economy.

if your still not satified graft a zo6 to the body of your car, like the guy in mustang performance did, 60's fastback on a 99 style mach1 floor and chassis

 

[BBC_cutty]

i agree, your car is a gbody, not an import, ans as for 15k?hmmm they add up pretty quick, im into mine for 30k+ and i havent completed my suspention, but i do have a 800hp bbc😉

 

[jonnyslick]

Haha ... yeah no kidding ... I'm trying to convince myself it will be cheap so I'll just bite the bullet and start the project! :lol:

Anywho, I'm doing it just because most people say its a bad idea. i had modded WRXs, swapped and suspenision'd 240's, fully drift spec Miata, two 5.0 hatchs built to drag, one 5.0 hatch for drift/auto-x, race prepped BMW 2002 (in the garge being tore down now), B13 SE-R, 16V Scirroco ... ect. ect.

Anyway, I'm wanting to build something hard to do what I want. The 240's and other import stuff is just too easy to be honest. And it *can* be done ... just takes time and money. I'm gonna' be putting a lot of my faith into SC&C for the suspenision. 8) That's the only real challenge to be honest.

 

[midwestcutlass2008]

i know what your saying about wanting to do something they say cant be done, but your going to have to do some major up grading to these cars, if you want a true decent rear end i would graft in an independant rear suspension out of an old stingray corvette, and do the best you can with the front. i love these cars but they were not built to go fast and handle all kinds of power, but you can up grade the power and make it go fast, its just the go fast and turn part that needs to be mastered now.
but all the power to you, good luck and take lots of pictures.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Haha ... yeah no kidding ... I'm trying to convince myself it will be cheap so I'll just bite the bullet and start the project! :lol:

Anywho, I'm doing it just because most people say its a bad idea. i had modded WRXs, swapped and suspenision'd 240's, fully drift spec Miata, two 5.0 hatchs built to drag, one 5.0 hatch for drift/auto-x, race prepped BMW 2002 (in the garge being tore down now), B13 SE-R, 16V Scirroco ... ect. ect.

Anyway, I'm wanting to build something hard to do what I want. The 240's and other import stuff is just too easy to be honest. And it *can* be done ... just takes time and money. I'm gonna' be putting a lot of my faith into SC&C for the suspenision. 8) That's the only real challenge to be honest.

Damn! You've had two of my all time favorite cars: The BMW 2002 and the B13 SE-R!!! I have been looking for a B13 for years. As for an IRS, skip the Vette stuff and find something that actually works. I don't know what to suggest yet because I am still trying to figure that one out for myself. I would say Jag XJS because it is cheap and about the right size ( and was used until recently by Jaguar and Aston Martin), but it lacks the passive 4 wheel steering that more modern designs come with. Plus, it dates to the XKE, so it's about as modern as the original Corvette design that was used in C2 and C3 Vettes. From a diagram I found, It also looks like a Semi-Trailing arm design which is very outmoded today.

However, these cars can handle much better than stock with moderate mods if you are not out for a 10/10ths car. I built mine for this purpose as I enjoy driving it fast on the back country farm roads when I need time to think. It is imperfect, and the live axle does get on my nerves from time to time. Then again it is not that far from stock either with only the bushings and springs being parts that don't carry a GM part number. I would do more, but I have no money to spend on it.

 

[jonnyslick]

^ SC&C have built several road/rally/open track cars using the watts link for the rear and they SWARE by it ... they have me sold :lol: . So that's prob. what I'm going to do, besides at like $700 it's not that expensive. If I don't like it, then I will go IRS for the rear.