307 to 403 Olds swap...info please?

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DoubleV

Royal Smart Person
Feb 25, 2011
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Medina Ohio
81X11 said:
Last question, for now, is you mentioned I could remove the entire ECM harness. How hard is that to do?

Again I appreciate all the help folks!

-Mike

Depends on wether you want to remove it intact or in cut into 2 peices.

To remove it intact, do this;

1) Remove front passenger side wheel.

2) Remove a total of 3 bolts from the plastic inner wheel well ( the ones that allow you to pry it away and give you access to the grommet in the firewall where the harness goes through ).

3) Pry plastic wheel well as far as you can. Wedge a small block of wood in there to keep it out of your way.

4) Remove 2 small screws for the bracket that holds the grommet secure. I think they were 7mm???

5) Pry grommet out of firewall into engine compartment and the wiring harness will come with it.

6) Plug up hole where grommet was. I personally used a spare grommet and still have wires routed out through it ( the purple 'P' wire for the lockup, and the pink/w black stripe 'E' wire for electric choke, and my 'M' pin is grounded inside the car just above where the ECM was located ).

Obviously you need everything unplugged to and from the ECM harness to remove it, so above assumes you did so. Some of the bolts can be a pain to get to.

If you want to do it the hackers way, just cut the harness somewhere and pull the 2 halfs out; one half trough the engine compartment and the other half into the interior.

Getting your A/C to work without the computer is easy too, but my car has a different A/C wiring setup than yours, so I won't comment on that other than to say it requires nothing more than perhaps splicing a wire or 2 together. Worry about that when the time comes.

With all this being said, as long as you're having no issues with your current CCC system and parts ( like the carb ), retaining it on your 403 is a pretty good idea and will cost you nothing since you already have it.
 

88hurstolds

Royal Smart Person
Jun 24, 2008
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You could do all that above or just drill and tap an o2 sensor and keep all your stock components and have good fuel economy, it all depends on what you want to do with the car.
Also...
The issue with the A/C system is losing proper control of Freon line pressure to the A/C system (jumping the relay just keeps the compressor on all the time).

I just saw an 84 Hurst Olds last month on H/O day with a 403 in it and all the regular CCC stuff on it without the AIR system (basically not needed). Myself and another noticed the light blue valve covers and told him he had 403 valve covers, then we noticed the 4A heads, crawled under there and my friend felt the 3 on the 403 stamping...
The owner DIDN'T even know he had a 403 in his car :shock:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28559

Granted it was stock but like I said before, they didn't come with much HP from the factory, keep in mind they replaced the 455 in larger cars and the 260 and 307 replaced the 350.
To really wake up the 403 takes a little bit more and even then you can still use the CCC system if properly tuned.

The CCC system is truely underrated...

More info on CCC's:

http://www.robertpowersmotorsports.com/CCC.html
 

CamaroAdam73

Royal Smart Person
Not sure what the 307 stacks up to the 403 weight wise, but be ready. I'm working on a 403 right now, and it's a heavy beast. With the stock setup, all cast iron i mean, it weights in at almost 600 pounds.
 

DoubleV

Royal Smart Person
Feb 25, 2011
2,154
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Medina Ohio
88hurstolds said:
I just saw an 84 Hurst Olds last month on H/O day with a 403 in it and all the regular CCC stuff on it without the AIR system (basically not needed). Myself and another noticed the light blue valve covers and told him he had 403 valve covers, then we noticed the 4A heads, crawled under there and my friend felt the 3 on the 403 stamping...
The owner DIDN'T even know he had a 403 in his car :shock:

That must be one weak-*ss 403 if he couldn't tell the difference between it and a smaller engine! :lol:
 

88hurstolds

Royal Smart Person
Jun 24, 2008
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:lol: Yup, ask Luke K. (83hurstguy) about it, turns out the owner of the car lives a few miles from me.

The stock 403 was not a powerful motor at 185 hp and 320 lb·ft with a FINAL compression ratio of 7.83:1 due to the 83cc chambered heads and 22cc relieved pistons :shock:
Heck an 83-85 VIN 9 307 has 180 hp, 245 lb·ft, 85-90 VIN Y's were 140 hp and 255 lb·ft (which he has)
The swirl port design of the roller motors produced more torque...
Big difference huh?

That said he might as well take advantage of the CCC's mixture and EGR capabilities since he's sticking 100 more cubic inches under there for 65 more lb·ft. Lower gas milage for little performance gain, might as well just stick another 307 in there... :lol:

If he were to build up the combo then the mods might be worth it, I do like your write-up BTW.

There's a drawing here on how to jump the A/C relay:

http://www.78-88olds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12
 

DoubleV

Royal Smart Person
Feb 25, 2011
2,154
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Medina Ohio
Yes, I agree, if you're wanting to stay stock or mostly stock then retaining the CCC system is a good way to go. Just delete the AIR crap and any of the other stuff that's not needed or wanted. I finally decided to dump mine only because I got tired of building/modding the engine to play nice with an emissions calibrated 8:1 CR computer when I wanted to push the limits a bit further than the ECM would probably like. Now if you could just pop in a nice easily accessable and affordable custom PROM chip, I'd have kept the computer, but there's no real support for CCC stuff so...

My A/C is wired just like the one in your link with the addition of having the WOT cut-out switch ( which I think is cool ). What I did on mine though was not jumper the relay, but actually splice the black/w green and black/w white wires together. Also, I popped out the lt green/blk and the lt green wires that both go to the same terminal on the C497 connector out. Doing this removes the relay, the extra relay wiring, and the 2 prong C105 connector that hooked to the ECM. Things look alot cleaner there now.

The VIN Y A/C is routed completely different at least on some years. Not sure why GM had so many different A/C wiring configurages though.

P.S. If the A/C compressor was controlled by the ECM, then why did some years ( like my 85 442 ) need a WOT cutout switch on the gas pedal in addition to that? The ECM could've just turned off the compressor when it sensed WOT from the TPS. :?
 

81X11

Master Mechanic
Oct 28, 2010
362
1
0
Round Rock Texas
Well I bought an engine....actually it kinda fell in my lap. One of my buddies that has a restoration shop got in a 71 Cutlass Supreme with a good running Olds 350 in it. He's going to do a 455 swap in it, and had no use for the 350.

Made the deal this weekend. Ran the numbers and it's the original 71 "Rocket 350" with #7 heads, which came from the factory with unleaded-friendly hardened valve seats.

It's been "updated" with an Edelbrock intake, electronic ignition, and an aftermarket carb, plus the usual "Pep Boys" dress up stuff. It's filthy, and I can't tell if it's ever been rebuilt, but it runs great, no smoke or noises, good compression, and has good power. Should be quite a step up from my gutless 307.

He wants to keep the carb and distributor, but I get everything else. Will be pulling it this week, and then I'm going to bring it home and put it on my engine stand, stare at it, and decide the next steps.

Progress!

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-Mike
 

Minion1186

G-Body Guru
Apr 12, 2009
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0
nice score, now all you need is an hei distributor and a carb, everything else is bolt on and go. Those 7 cast heads are one of the "best" flowing heads from the factory for sbo next to the number 5's and 6's. IIRC 442.com has the specs for all olds engines and they list these heads having 64 cc chambers,1.880 int/1.567 exh valves and the hardened valve seats.
 

81X11

Master Mechanic
Oct 28, 2010
362
1
0
Round Rock Texas
Good to know! Found out he is keeping the exhaust manifolds, and I'm not about to put my '88 307 manifolds on this 350, so will scavenge something up.

I'm going to order a new Edelbrock 1406 600cfm carb, and HEI distributors are cheap and easy to find.

Little-by-little!

-Mike
 

81X11

Master Mechanic
Oct 28, 2010
362
1
0
Round Rock Texas
Went and took another look at the engine at lunch. It has an Edelbrock 1406 on it now, but I could not see any numbers on the distributor.

Took some pics, but it was really BRIGHT and hot out there, so there is a lot of glare.

The engine is pretty leaky, it for sure will need new gaskets at least. Check out the oil on the top of the water pump housing?

Lots of cleaning to do!!

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