Yep, I’ve been slowly picking away at the backside of the tail panel, I can post up an update later tonight or tomorrow. It likely won’t have a lot of content, but I can post what I do have.
BUILD THREAD “The Juggernaut”
- Thread starter Rktpwrd
- Start date
Yep, I’ve been slowly picking away at the backside of the tail panel, I can post up an update later tonight or tomorrow. It likely won’t have a lot of content, but I can post what I do have.
Ever do something or make a modification to your G body that you’ve regretted, either instantly or otherwise?
I have.
For me, the absolute bane of my existence is that I sprayed the entire trunk with rubberized undercoat.
Every. Square. Inch.
It seemed like a good idea at the time back in my 20’s, hell, it even looked pretty good for a while, but over time I really began to regret it. The premise was sound, it covered up a multitude of sins, was durable, and (in theory) should’ve cut down on NVH, but as it aged and showed signs of wear, it became more of a liability than a good idea.
Why am I talking about this? Well because the backside of the tail panel that I’m starting filler work on needs addressing before the outside does. To perform the necessary work on the inside first required trying to remove this aforementioned undercoating.
And it’s one bear of a job.
The bulk of the removal was done with a 2” fibre wheel on my 90 degree angle die grinder, but even this was an exercise in patience and perseverance. Because the undercoat is not catalyzed, it never fully hardens. Heat softens it slightly, but not enough to make removal easy. The fibre wheel mostly removes it, but it does smear as much as it removes.
So you can see my struggle.
The paint stripper that’s available nowadays is a very weak watered down version of its original formula, so it isn’t very effective either. And as for lacquer thinner and wax and grease remover, it simply laughs at them. Sandblasting? That’s a no-go too, because the sand mostly just bounces off the rubberized surface.
All these obstacles aside, I persevered and pushed through. Some “in progress” pictures:
I often get asked “what do you use to do ______” My answer in the past has always been “whatever I can”. Literally.
Here’s some pictures of the litany of tools, equipment and abrasives I’ve been using to remove this crap:
Fibre wheels and tapered abrasive cartridge rolls:
Spot sandblaster:
Die grinders, carbide burrs, air belt sander…
Grinding discs, DA sanders, small screwdrivers and putty knives for scraping etc:
Lacquer thinner on the right, and heavy duty wax and grease remover on the left. The undercoat just laughed at these, neither one did a damn thing.
Once I got the bulk of the undercoat removed from the areas that were repaired and heavily worked, I skimmed these areas with a bit of body filler. This is highly unconventional on the inside of a panel, but then again The Juggernaut isn’t exactly a conventional build.
The skimmed areas had weld seams, grinder marks, hammer marks and various other issues that I wanted to restore to original. Since I haven’t yet decided on how I’m going to finish out the trunk, restoring the inside of the tail panel to original is the most logical option at this point.
You could think of it as practicing what I preach, where the backside of a repaired or modified panel should look as good as the outside. No evidence of anything ever have been done to it.
While it’s pretty easy to dismiss this work as being relatively insignificant, performing it was a real challenge in itself. I’ve gotten really good at sanding upside down and leaning over, although the back can only take so much of it before it finally cries mercy. All my large flat and long sanding blocks were completely useless for this, so I bought a second thin DuraBlock and cut it into thirds for a little more versatility.
As of this writing, all the necessary filler work has now been completed on the backside, and now I’m onto removing the last of the undercoating from in and around all the convoluted nooks and crannies behind the taillights, and digging out the remaining factory seam sealer.
Let’s talk about the factory seam sealer for a minute. I’ve complained in length in the past about this, the factory’s absolute abuse of the stuff, the complete reckless abandon with which they slopped the stuff around is practically criminal. You can literally see places that they wiped the tip of the gun off on an adjacent panel, after gooping on entirely too much in an area to begin with. Sloppy, shoddy and unsightly to say the least.
I’ve also identified at least 3 different types of sealer that they used, a non catalyzed orange type that doesn’t harden and smears everywhere when disturbed, a pink type that is literally hard as a rock, and a kind of fluffy yellow one that they used to fill large voids with. The hard pink one is commonly found underneath our vinyl roofs and is often mistaken for body filler, but is most assuredly seam sealer. I’ve found all 3 types in the trunk seam in The Juggernaut.
Is it just me? Does anybody else’s car have this same abuse of seam sealer?
Literally piles of the crap coming out:
So that’s pretty much where I currently stand. The passenger side is done…
…and I’m almost done with the driver's side as well:
This weekend I should be able to get some epoxy primer mixed up and brushed into the seams, and then I’ll scuff that before masking off and applying some fresh new seam sealer to all the seams.
And you can guarantee it won’t be done as shoddily as the factory did it.
Post up something that you’ve done to your G body that you’ve ultimately regretted doing, it could be an interesting discussion!
D.
I have.
For me, the absolute bane of my existence is that I sprayed the entire trunk with rubberized undercoat.
Every. Square. Inch.
It seemed like a good idea at the time back in my 20’s, hell, it even looked pretty good for a while, but over time I really began to regret it. The premise was sound, it covered up a multitude of sins, was durable, and (in theory) should’ve cut down on NVH, but as it aged and showed signs of wear, it became more of a liability than a good idea.
Why am I talking about this? Well because the backside of the tail panel that I’m starting filler work on needs addressing before the outside does. To perform the necessary work on the inside first required trying to remove this aforementioned undercoating.
And it’s one bear of a job.
The bulk of the removal was done with a 2” fibre wheel on my 90 degree angle die grinder, but even this was an exercise in patience and perseverance. Because the undercoat is not catalyzed, it never fully hardens. Heat softens it slightly, but not enough to make removal easy. The fibre wheel mostly removes it, but it does smear as much as it removes.
So you can see my struggle.
The paint stripper that’s available nowadays is a very weak watered down version of its original formula, so it isn’t very effective either. And as for lacquer thinner and wax and grease remover, it simply laughs at them. Sandblasting? That’s a no-go too, because the sand mostly just bounces off the rubberized surface.
All these obstacles aside, I persevered and pushed through. Some “in progress” pictures:
I often get asked “what do you use to do ______” My answer in the past has always been “whatever I can”. Literally.
Here’s some pictures of the litany of tools, equipment and abrasives I’ve been using to remove this crap:
Fibre wheels and tapered abrasive cartridge rolls:
Spot sandblaster:
Die grinders, carbide burrs, air belt sander…
Grinding discs, DA sanders, small screwdrivers and putty knives for scraping etc:
Lacquer thinner on the right, and heavy duty wax and grease remover on the left. The undercoat just laughed at these, neither one did a damn thing.
Once I got the bulk of the undercoat removed from the areas that were repaired and heavily worked, I skimmed these areas with a bit of body filler. This is highly unconventional on the inside of a panel, but then again The Juggernaut isn’t exactly a conventional build.
The skimmed areas had weld seams, grinder marks, hammer marks and various other issues that I wanted to restore to original. Since I haven’t yet decided on how I’m going to finish out the trunk, restoring the inside of the tail panel to original is the most logical option at this point.
You could think of it as practicing what I preach, where the backside of a repaired or modified panel should look as good as the outside. No evidence of anything ever have been done to it.
While it’s pretty easy to dismiss this work as being relatively insignificant, performing it was a real challenge in itself. I’ve gotten really good at sanding upside down and leaning over, although the back can only take so much of it before it finally cries mercy. All my large flat and long sanding blocks were completely useless for this, so I bought a second thin DuraBlock and cut it into thirds for a little more versatility.
As of this writing, all the necessary filler work has now been completed on the backside, and now I’m onto removing the last of the undercoating from in and around all the convoluted nooks and crannies behind the taillights, and digging out the remaining factory seam sealer.
Let’s talk about the factory seam sealer for a minute. I’ve complained in length in the past about this, the factory’s absolute abuse of the stuff, the complete reckless abandon with which they slopped the stuff around is practically criminal. You can literally see places that they wiped the tip of the gun off on an adjacent panel, after gooping on entirely too much in an area to begin with. Sloppy, shoddy and unsightly to say the least.
I’ve also identified at least 3 different types of sealer that they used, a non catalyzed orange type that doesn’t harden and smears everywhere when disturbed, a pink type that is literally hard as a rock, and a kind of fluffy yellow one that they used to fill large voids with. The hard pink one is commonly found underneath our vinyl roofs and is often mistaken for body filler, but is most assuredly seam sealer. I’ve found all 3 types in the trunk seam in The Juggernaut.
Is it just me? Does anybody else’s car have this same abuse of seam sealer?
Literally piles of the crap coming out:
So that’s pretty much where I currently stand. The passenger side is done…
…and I’m almost done with the driver's side as well:
This weekend I should be able to get some epoxy primer mixed up and brushed into the seams, and then I’ll scuff that before masking off and applying some fresh new seam sealer to all the seams.
And you can guarantee it won’t be done as shoddily as the factory did it.
Post up something that you’ve done to your G body that you’ve ultimately regretted doing, it could be an interesting discussion!
D.
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I love it, no stone left unturned. I can’t imagine what you’re going to get into when you move to the underside of the car.
Removing OEM undercoating with a propane torch, been there, no fun!
More nice work Donovan. Your patience continues to amaze me. The variety of tools and different grades and types of discs as well. Some of those discs aren't cheap either. I recently purchased a couple of Roloc bristle discs, for cleaning off gasket surfaces, and those little 2" diameter discs were over $12.00CDN each. Whenever you work on a vehicle, its not just the cost of the parts that you use, but all of the different tools and shop supplies that can really add up.
As for the excessively liberal use of sealing materials, I guess there's no time for craftsmanship when you're on the assembly line.
I can also relate to the aches and pains that you can get from contorting your body into different positions, in order to get some tasks done.
Keep up the good work, and the updates. I really enjoy them.
As for the excessively liberal use of sealing materials, I guess there's no time for craftsmanship when you're on the assembly line.
I can also relate to the aches and pains that you can get from contorting your body into different positions, in order to get some tasks done.
Keep up the good work, and the updates. I really enjoy them.
I'm surprised you didn't have the fire wrench & scrapper included. As for the seam sealers, I've came across them all removing the unneeded metal off the replacement trunk floor that was picked up a few years back. Not fun to deal with.
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Donovan, this has sealed my suspicions. You're a masochist. 🤣
I have no disillusions of what I’m going to find on the underside of the car, I already know full well going in that it ain’t gonna be pretty. Thankfully most of the floor pan has been replaced with my custom made floor. That’ll cut down on a lot of it.
Absolutely.
Yep, supplies aren’t cheap Jeff. And the specialty ones are even more. My number one biggest expense on the car is almost always in supplies, especially paint and body supplies. They’re so expensive they’ll make your head spin.
I agree to a certain extent, I do fully understand the need for speed and efficiency on the production line, but even with that in mind the slapdash haphazard way in which it was applied is still excessive IMO. To me that’s an obvious sign of someone who doesn’t take any pride in their work. You can still be quick and efficient without making a total mess of things.
I honestly believe that a lot of the rust and corrosion failures on out cars can be directly attributed to the shoddy seam sealer applications they did.
Actually I did mention that heat and scraping was only minimally effective, I just didn’t post pictures of them with all the other tools I had out.
Mmm, I prefer perfectionist. Still an “ist” but sounds much better. 😅
I will admit though, the perfectionism sometimes leads directly to masochisim in instances like this. I’m my own worst enemy.
No one can ever say you took the easy way out. You do whatever needs to be done, for the job to be done perfectly, every time. Bravo sir!
Assembly line work: I can guarantee you that the assembly line workers did whatever it was concerning their jobs so often that they became blind to whatever went on. 99% chance they wouldn't remember specific cars as far as seam sealers. They had no investement in the product except to meet the minimum standards so as not to get yelled at by the supervisor or worse, lose their job. They just wanted to pay their bills and feed their families. And seam sealer covered up with paint and floor carpet surely wasn't a technically specific production anyway. The sealer guns used eventually became automated, and they still have a few drawbacks. Anyway, the point is, as with any production, unless something wacky happened, like a hose blew and filled the trunk with sealer goo, usually nobody will ever remember the specifics about a particular job, especially after the 13,000th time of doing it. They built these cars for the masses who will NEVER do what's being done here, and never care. Would it have been nice if they actually gave two craps when doing their jobs in the first place? Yes. Did they? Likely--- not. Did they think that ANYONE 45+ years later was going to want to revisit their handiwork or care about trunk gaps? Not in a million years.
That's why most of us are here. Because we do give a crap. And we don't mind revisiting those line workers' results nearly 50 years later and trying to fix them. The kind of nice thing about the sloppy standard window that was as wide as a soccer net is that you can bring in the tolerances and do it yourself and make it much better without even trying hard. Additionally, most of the assembly line standards were so loose, you don't even have to be perfect in doing it and you still win. So you don't have to be a masochist, perfectionist, or even a skilled machinist to do a good job as compared to the factory. But it's still nice to see as close to perfect as you can get. But also, some standards were so sloppy that if you did place something exactly right, you'd be accused of it not looking like the factory did it. Can't win. Decals and appliques come to mind.
I feel a bit guilty in pointing out the uneven lines on that filler piece now. But I'm sure you'd have figured out that things were fubar pretty shortly afterwards anyway. 🙂
That's why most of us are here. Because we do give a crap. And we don't mind revisiting those line workers' results nearly 50 years later and trying to fix them. The kind of nice thing about the sloppy standard window that was as wide as a soccer net is that you can bring in the tolerances and do it yourself and make it much better without even trying hard. Additionally, most of the assembly line standards were so loose, you don't even have to be perfect in doing it and you still win. So you don't have to be a masochist, perfectionist, or even a skilled machinist to do a good job as compared to the factory. But it's still nice to see as close to perfect as you can get. But also, some standards were so sloppy that if you did place something exactly right, you'd be accused of it not looking like the factory did it. Can't win. Decals and appliques come to mind.
I feel a bit guilty in pointing out the uneven lines on that filler piece now. But I'm sure you'd have figured out that things were fubar pretty shortly afterwards anyway. 🙂
