BUILD THREAD Janky- A Mexican Monte Clone
- Thread starter UC645
- Start date
Maybe we can get together with his dad & the Jr. Mechanic & have an intervention. He does look like he has an affliction that make him come with bad ideas. I personnally saw this when I saw him at the Washington VFD swap meet look at LS oil pans.
Now you got them all freaked out with the L word
Nobody needs to worry, I’m freaked out by it too 😂
Now you got them all freaked out with the L word
I already had 12 different compressor efficiency maps saved to my phone and an account with Garrett Turbos.
It’s already far too late for me.
You have slipped to the dark side. Just leave the SBC parts in the trunk of the brown Monte Carlo & we may just be able to look the other way.
And speaking of said LS swap, might as well outline it since it’s on my mind.
A few years back the shop I work for was bought by a group of guys, one of which was really into cars (he’s one of the main sponsors of the Pittsburgh Vintage GP). One day he just asks me if I want a motor. I’m passively interested, he doesn’t know what he has and I can’t tell from his photos, so time goes by and he calls me up and says just come get it one weekend.
That motor turned out to be an Aluminum Block Gen 4 5.3 truck motor. Complete from intake to pan, with no obvious issues.
I’ve toyed around with the idea of an all-aluminum small block here and there but it’s just extremely cost prohibitive. Sinking $10k into heads and block just to make close to what I could with better heads on my current setup, still need to deal with carb tubing (which I do enjoy) and going back to a 2 piece rear main just isn’t all that attractive.
Not when I know what these newer engines can do, especially for the starting point.
With that said, I’m not sure how I’m going to proceed with this motor.
I know they can make good power N/A, but that comes with RPM in the 5.3’s case. The 350 should make more torque, but by how much I don’t know.
That just leaves boost. I’m not a fan of N2O, plus I don’t have a place to readily fill bottles too.
Which leave me stuck between the 3 avenues of boost:
Positive Displacement Superchargers
Centrifugal Superchargers
Or
War Snails AKA, Turbos.
I’m not interested in a Roots blower since they’re too large and make a ton of heat.
The only option I’m really interested in is an LSA blower, but scrounging vs a new kit, the total here still runs about $5k. That and I’m not really a fan of constantly hammering an engine with boost pressure all the time.
Still need to do more digging on this though.
Centrifugal Blowers are pretty much limited to either ProCharger or TorqueStorm, and I’m leaning more towards TorqueStorm or a used ProCharger if I can find one. Packaging is the real issue with these, since I’ve still got to account for a mechanical drive, the air intake is 180 degrees out from any other option, and there’s the issue of intercooling.
Although I do like the lower boost at lower RPM aspect.
And finally, turbos.
I’ve been sinking my teeth into this route for over 3 months now and there’s a lot of stuff I like!
And an equal amount of things I don’t.
The downsides are heat, packaging, and lack of control.
The exhaust makes heat, that’s obvious. Now you’ve gotta route that forward, keep it in the engine bay, combine it while fighting back pressure, then get it out. Instead of down and out for headers or manifolds. Packaging is also an issue depending on the exhaust crossover arrangement, intercooler setup, and the extra and/or larger coolers to to keep the engine happy without cooking the oil to 250+.
Then there’s the control issues. Turbos aren’t unhinged beasts unless you want them to be, but they make torque. I’ve seen enough wrecked Porsches to know what happens when turbos come alive in the middle of a turn.
Now LS engines can and will make gobs of power with boost, but my issue is most of these are either dyno queens, or drag cars. I’m not sure how much I’m interested in racing, but Power Tour and One Lap of America keep floating around my head as well as semi local events at Pittsburgh International, and UMI Motorsports Park.
So having a 2-300 hp/tq bump when I get back on the power isn’t ideal to say the least.
But the versatility is hard to ignore. Turn it up, turn it down, keep it on a semi-stock spec 5.3, and have a relatively fuel efficient engine. Heck, fuel efficiency how Ford sold the EcoBoost concept, why wouldn’t it work here? Except it wouldn’t be on a small V6 barely powerful enough to move a stubborn VW Beetle.
Not to overlook the cost of a home brew turbo kit is leagues ahead of a S/C kit of any variety.
However, if I can’t limit the boost without choking the engine out, or causing other issues, it’s likely not worth the hassle.
Could go and pick up a 6.0 or 6.2, and keep it N/A, but giving up the advantages of fuel economy for One Lap, Power Tour, or even local traveling is something I don’t really want to give up. Plus, the odds of finding an aluminum 6.0 or 6.2 are slim to none. And none of them will be free 😂
No matter which route I go with though, the 5.Free will be put in front of my current TH350 with a BTR HotRod cam or something similar. Richard Holdener’s dyno results were really impressive for a N/A 5.3, and cutting 2-400 pounds of weight from the front of the car plus the weight savings from a fiberglass hood (and better wiring) the LS should be plenty for the time being. Then a T56 is on the list.
But all that is years in the future.
A few years back the shop I work for was bought by a group of guys, one of which was really into cars (he’s one of the main sponsors of the Pittsburgh Vintage GP). One day he just asks me if I want a motor. I’m passively interested, he doesn’t know what he has and I can’t tell from his photos, so time goes by and he calls me up and says just come get it one weekend.
That motor turned out to be an Aluminum Block Gen 4 5.3 truck motor. Complete from intake to pan, with no obvious issues.
I’ve toyed around with the idea of an all-aluminum small block here and there but it’s just extremely cost prohibitive. Sinking $10k into heads and block just to make close to what I could with better heads on my current setup, still need to deal with carb tubing (which I do enjoy) and going back to a 2 piece rear main just isn’t all that attractive.
Not when I know what these newer engines can do, especially for the starting point.
With that said, I’m not sure how I’m going to proceed with this motor.
I know they can make good power N/A, but that comes with RPM in the 5.3’s case. The 350 should make more torque, but by how much I don’t know.
That just leaves boost. I’m not a fan of N2O, plus I don’t have a place to readily fill bottles too.
Which leave me stuck between the 3 avenues of boost:
Positive Displacement Superchargers
Centrifugal Superchargers
Or
War Snails AKA, Turbos.
I’m not interested in a Roots blower since they’re too large and make a ton of heat.
The only option I’m really interested in is an LSA blower, but scrounging vs a new kit, the total here still runs about $5k. That and I’m not really a fan of constantly hammering an engine with boost pressure all the time.
Still need to do more digging on this though.
Centrifugal Blowers are pretty much limited to either ProCharger or TorqueStorm, and I’m leaning more towards TorqueStorm or a used ProCharger if I can find one. Packaging is the real issue with these, since I’ve still got to account for a mechanical drive, the air intake is 180 degrees out from any other option, and there’s the issue of intercooling.
Although I do like the lower boost at lower RPM aspect.
And finally, turbos.
I’ve been sinking my teeth into this route for over 3 months now and there’s a lot of stuff I like!
And an equal amount of things I don’t.
The downsides are heat, packaging, and lack of control.
The exhaust makes heat, that’s obvious. Now you’ve gotta route that forward, keep it in the engine bay, combine it while fighting back pressure, then get it out. Instead of down and out for headers or manifolds. Packaging is also an issue depending on the exhaust crossover arrangement, intercooler setup, and the extra and/or larger coolers to to keep the engine happy without cooking the oil to 250+.
Then there’s the control issues. Turbos aren’t unhinged beasts unless you want them to be, but they make torque. I’ve seen enough wrecked Porsches to know what happens when turbos come alive in the middle of a turn.
Now LS engines can and will make gobs of power with boost, but my issue is most of these are either dyno queens, or drag cars. I’m not sure how much I’m interested in racing, but Power Tour and One Lap of America keep floating around my head as well as semi local events at Pittsburgh International, and UMI Motorsports Park.
So having a 2-300 hp/tq bump when I get back on the power isn’t ideal to say the least.
But the versatility is hard to ignore. Turn it up, turn it down, keep it on a semi-stock spec 5.3, and have a relatively fuel efficient engine. Heck, fuel efficiency how Ford sold the EcoBoost concept, why wouldn’t it work here? Except it wouldn’t be on a small V6 barely powerful enough to move a stubborn VW Beetle.
Not to overlook the cost of a home brew turbo kit is leagues ahead of a S/C kit of any variety.
However, if I can’t limit the boost without choking the engine out, or causing other issues, it’s likely not worth the hassle.
Could go and pick up a 6.0 or 6.2, and keep it N/A, but giving up the advantages of fuel economy for One Lap, Power Tour, or even local traveling is something I don’t really want to give up. Plus, the odds of finding an aluminum 6.0 or 6.2 are slim to none. And none of them will be free 😂
No matter which route I go with though, the 5.Free will be put in front of my current TH350 with a BTR HotRod cam or something similar. Richard Holdener’s dyno results were really impressive for a N/A 5.3, and cutting 2-400 pounds of weight from the front of the car plus the weight savings from a fiberglass hood (and better wiring) the LS should be plenty for the time being. Then a T56 is on the list.
But all that is years in the future.
Pulled the fuel tank this afternoon to take some measurements of the indent that Tanks Inc adds in for their fuel pickups.
And well, there’s a smidge less space here than I thought…
9 inches wide by about 5 and a half inches deep. Not much for what’s on the market for access panels. There’s 8x6 and 8x5 IIRC, and that’s skirting the edge width wise and well over the available depth of the cutout.
I’m starting to lean towards making a larger pickup opening rather than cutting out the whole panel.
As for the transfer pump idea, that kind of depended on making a whole new top plate for the cutout, but there was one portion of this I didn’t remember:
The top half of the tank is a stock type stamping, with the stock pickup area stamped out! I’ll need to get the measurements for a DW lift pump or a TBI pump and go from there, but a larger fuel tray pickup plate with a 3rd inlet being fed from the center should work quite well.
And as far as future LS power adders go, I’m just gonna say it: turbos make too damn much for my goals! Even a 67mm Garrett unit will struggle to stay out of choke at 6000rpm with a 500hp crank target. And a 62mm unit will be even less efficient so that’s out of the question.
That leaves the LSA and TorqueStorm units. The LSA will need to be underdriven for the 5.3 by quite a bit, but I can’t find any solid efficiency maps for it. Eaton has a map for the TVS1900 units but the RPM and flow mapping is off even for a stock configuration on a 6.2 so I can’t use it for the math.
Haven’t really looked into the TorqueStorm units, but what poking around I’ve done didn’t come up with anything for their efficiency maps, so that’s diving in blind as well.
And well, there’s a smidge less space here than I thought…
9 inches wide by about 5 and a half inches deep. Not much for what’s on the market for access panels. There’s 8x6 and 8x5 IIRC, and that’s skirting the edge width wise and well over the available depth of the cutout.
I’m starting to lean towards making a larger pickup opening rather than cutting out the whole panel.
As for the transfer pump idea, that kind of depended on making a whole new top plate for the cutout, but there was one portion of this I didn’t remember:
The top half of the tank is a stock type stamping, with the stock pickup area stamped out! I’ll need to get the measurements for a DW lift pump or a TBI pump and go from there, but a larger fuel tray pickup plate with a 3rd inlet being fed from the center should work quite well.
And as far as future LS power adders go, I’m just gonna say it: turbos make too damn much for my goals! Even a 67mm Garrett unit will struggle to stay out of choke at 6000rpm with a 500hp crank target. And a 62mm unit will be even less efficient so that’s out of the question.
That leaves the LSA and TorqueStorm units. The LSA will need to be underdriven for the 5.3 by quite a bit, but I can’t find any solid efficiency maps for it. Eaton has a map for the TVS1900 units but the RPM and flow mapping is off even for a stock configuration on a 6.2 so I can’t use it for the math.
Haven’t really looked into the TorqueStorm units, but what poking around I’ve done didn’t come up with anything for their efficiency maps, so that’s diving in blind as well.
