1984 H/O ??FAKE?? sold at Mecum

[pagrunt]

I see this all the time with 'Bandit' trans-ams. Once saw a 79-81 convertible with a 77-78 nose on it, being sold as a 77 factory original numbers matching "ultra mega rare blah blah blah." Firebirds didn't come in a convertible between 1970 and 1988. It looked well done, and would likely have been worth whatever the guy was asking, so why lie about it?

This reminds me of the early '80's "GS" Regal that was for sale down the street from me on Pittsburgh's North Side. Seller claimed it was a documented with GM paper work & a copy of one History's shows that covered classic cars back then that had it in it. Was a rusty Regal Limited with a padded half roof. Only thing GS on it was the lone emblem on the grill. But it's an original rare Buick as the seller kept telling me.

 

[78Delta88]

Sold through Mecum, 2007 - 2008 timeframe, and yes it's a buyer beware market. Being that I was into F Body at the time and owner of a "Bandit" which in reality doesn't exist.... Biggest glaring issues I saw back then we're cars that defiantly were not TA's, Formulas or Y88 Special Editions, including NASCAR and INDY Pace cars. Seats were wrong, shifters wrong, dash wrong and on and on and on....

This probably includes 57 Chevy sold as something their not during the 70s.

Basically; if you want a stand out car and you have the money, go for it, but the customer should know what they are buying.

Anyone been around long enough we've all seen the Lemans now a GTO Judge, a Skylark now a GS, or and old '70 6 cyl Nova now a Rally 350.

And you right about the "super rare" 77 convertible....

TA didn't even come into popularity until after the 77 model year due to the Smokie/Bandit movie. Prior to the movie GM was looking at the TA being dropped from the line up. It was after the movie release that TA sales took off. Plus even in the movie Pontiac used leftover 76 Special Edition Black/Gold units with the 77 nose swapped on them and sent to Hal Needham.

When it comes to dollars, just do your research.

 

[87National]

It can't be that hard to find a car that's about to be scrapped and use that vin on the car with no vin.

I've got a title for an 86 grand prix that I parted out years ago. I know what I would do......

 

[08Malibu]

According to the guy who bought it on the 2+2 owners FB page he is somewhere between collector and museum owner and talked about registering it as a home built street rod or something along those lines. He is in TX and it sounds like the rules are pretty lax.



Even so, there is an easy $9k in parts there. Rusty or wrecked 2+2 shell and although some wouldn't consider it 100% above boards, but where there's a will, there's a way.

Tru

Sold through Mecum, 2007 - 2008 timeframe, and yes it's a buyer beware market. Being that I was into F Body at the time and owner of a "Bandit" which in reality doesn't exist.... Biggest glaring issues I saw back then we're cars that defiantly were not TA's, Formulas or Y88 Special Editions, including NASCAR and INDY Pace cars. Seats were wrong, shifters wrong, dash wrong and on and on and on....

This probably includes 57 Chevy sold as something their not during the 70s.

Basically; if you want a stand out car and you have the money, go for it, but the customer should know what they are buying.

Anyone been around long enough we've all seen the Lemans now a GTO Judge, a Skylark now a GS, or and old '70 6 cyl Nova now a Rally 350.

And you right about the "super rare" 77 convertible....

TA didn't even come into popularity until after the 77 model year due to the Smokie/Bandit movie. Prior to the movie GM was looking at the TA being dropped from the line up. It was after the movie release that TA sales took off. Plus even in the movie Pontiac used leftover 76 Special Edition Black/Gold units with the 77 nose swapped on them and sent to Hal Needham.

When it comes to dollars, just do your research.

i actually bought a 79 Cutlas header panel from a guy that owned one of the ultra rare 77 TA convertibles. Had a factory Chevy 350 in it too. I felt bad for him at first, but it turns out that he actually despises people like me due to my political beliefs.

 

[PBGBodyFan]

I decided to look up the 1985 2+2, forgot it was that year so perhaps truly a prototype for the 1986 2+2. Sold for $16,000 at the 2013 Kissimmee auction. Crazy that it dropped almost in half, assuming it was stored indoors and not driven of course so I can't imagine it is in worse shape. It would be tempting to put a VIN on it but the story and whatever is in the place of it (nothing, or some kind of GM serial number?) is pretty cool too. Ideally you live in a state where you can get it legally titled/driven. There are kit cars and other special interest vehicles that can be driven in many places afterall.

The original listing somewhere mentioned it came with paperwork from GM including test results, would be cool to see what they all did or what came with it from GM, aerodynamic testing or did they use it as a test mule for some mechanical parts? I recall the same time frame GM selling off some of these cars there was g-body Cutlass that had some 200-4r tweaks done and a few minor mechanical things changed, or something like that and it was more of a test car but in near perfect shape and nicely optioned if I recall.

1985 Pontiac Grand Prix 2+2 | K166 | Kissimmee 2013 | Mecum Auctions

1985 Pontiac Grand Prix 2+2 presented as Lot K166 at Kissimmee, FL

www.mecum.com

 

[69hurstolds]

I decided to look up the 1985 2+2, forgot it was that year so perhaps truly a prototype for the 1986 2+2. Sold for $16,000 at the 2013 Kissimmee auction. Crazy that it dropped almost in half, assuming it was stored indoors and not driven of course so I can't imagine it is in worse shape. It would be tempting to put a VIN on it but the story and whatever is in the place of it (nothing, or some kind of GM serial number?) is pretty cool too. Ideally you live in a state where you can get it legally titled/driven. There are kit cars and other special interest vehicles that can be driven in many places afterall.

The original listing somewhere mentioned it came with paperwork from GM including test results, would be cool to see what they all did or what came with it from GM, aerodynamic testing or did they use it as a test mule for some mechanical parts? I recall the same time frame GM selling off some of these cars there was g-body Cutlass that had some 200-4r tweaks done and a few minor mechanical things changed, or something like that and it was more of a test car but in near perfect shape and nicely optioned if I recall.

1985 Pontiac Grand Prix 2+2 | K166 | Kissimmee 2013 | Mecum Auctions

1985 Pontiac Grand Prix 2+2 presented as Lot K166 at Kissimmee, FL

www.mecum.com

Prototypes for real-world durability testing wouldn't likely look this nice. They were beaters, with either paint or primer, or rust, or whatever, depending on what they were testing with wires and monitor equipment and all sorts of crap hanging in and out of the car. GM engineers are like most engineering groups. You have brainiacs doing all sorts of Frankenstein stuff- no telling how it's going to look. Function over form, though.

THIS particular car was the showcase car most likely used to show the brass what was capable and what was do-able within the budget or price target bands laid out. From what I know about the prototype cars, they don't just normally build one from thin air. Someone (in the brass) has to green-light the project even if it doesn't make it off the drawing boards because that's $$ and effort that could be spent elsewhere. This particular project was probably driven more by wanting to use the aerodynamics on the race cars but had to make them streetable to be able to build enough factory cars to call the 2+2 a production vehicle, so you know they were going to get this done.

 

[PBGBodyFan]

Curiousity got the best of me, this is the Cutlass....the 2+2 must of sold at this auction originally too now that I think about it, or around this time. This Cutlass looks fairly nice for a testing vehicle: https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1985-OLDSMOBILE-CUTLASS-COUPE-71576

 

[69hurstolds]

Curiousity got the best of me, this is the Cutlass....the 2+2 must of sold at this auction originally too now that I think about it, or around this time. This Cutlass looks fairly nice for a testing vehicle: https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1985-OLDSMOBILE-CUTLASS-COUPE-71576

I'm impressed by that car not being beat to hell like most of them would be. I'd definitely drive that around. Note it's a "Supreme" so no reclining AR9 buckets like Salon/442. Came with the A51 non-recliners. That was the ONLY difference of those seats. I'm gathering that car was a production car they just built and then took it apart and played with it, as the VIN doesn't show it any different than any other 307 Y engine Supreme. The car sorely needed a 3.23. Makes sense. The non-442 307s came with 3 speed autos only in 85 Cutlass, so I'm sure they wanted to experiment with 4-speed and 3.23s in a Cutlass.

Interestingly, the 307 Y/200-4R (code OJ) with the GU5 (3.23) was already certified for Custom Cruisers and 88s, so why couldn't they just use that setup? Same engine. All Custom Cruisers, Diesels, and 442 came with 200-4R. Some Delta 88s came with 200C or 200-4R depending on rear gear choice.

I got to see a couple of test mule 1990 Corvette ZR-1s in early 1987. There's a skunkwerks in the middle of the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY where they build Corvettes. Or there was in the late 80s. Nothing but tall plywood walls around it at the time with no roof. My dad snuck me in to see it. Inside were 2 ZR-1s, both on lifts, buch of tools, equipment and 3 mad scientists at work. They were trying to test fit the cat converters in one of them. They both looked like clown cars because every panel was painted a different color. There was no engine in the car they had on the other lift, but the "engine" was sitting on the stand, half torn down. There was also a complete LT5 engine, heads, and transmission assemblies in balsa wood sitting nearby. Must've weighed 2 lbs total if not an ounce. That was their "clearance mule" parts that they could jam in there, and take it out or move it around as needed. Now, at the time, 1987 Corvettes weren't all that and a bag of chips performance-wise, so a 16 injectored, 4 cam, 32 valve, 375 HP Mercury-Marine built V8 engine was something to behold in that era. Starter was under the intake manifold. Yikes. They swarmed on me and wanted to tell me everything they could about the car and its capabilities. Lots of show and tell and I was blown away by all the cool sh*t that was coming down the pike for Corvettes. Kid in a candy store.

Honest to God, that place looked more like a typical backyard car shop than a laboratory where history was coming to life. Cool toys inside, though.

 

[08Malibu]

Here’s one of those super rare second gen camaro convertibles.

 

[Ernest]

Here’s one of those super rare second gen camaro convertibles.

The 3rd gens lQQk better as a convertable, but drop tops are not for me... i prefer NON-T hard tops only.