442 engine swap

[hotrodoldsman]

I noticed your alternator was moved on the 1st pick and was curious how you did it. Did you have anything done to your heads or are they right out of the box? I believe where I have the eddlebrock performer rpm intake manifold they will bolt right up. I know they say they are for 403 and 455 but I was told they will work with my small block if I use an electric fuel pump. As far as my body work I have a OEM passenger quarter panel/ rocker panel/ 2 doors from Texas to get put on. The drivers side quarter panel and rocker panel have already been installed from the previous owner. Wish he had put both sides on at the same time so I didn't have to deal with it.Trying to find a guy in my area thats reasonable has been tough and so far no luck. I'm no body guy and have never painted. trying to find a guy who works out of his garage or something like that. Shop prices with there overhead is more than I can afford right now. Do you know anyone in the south west suburbs of Chicago like that? I also notice you run a holly carb. Did you ever try eddelbrock carbs> I have a Holly 750 cfm that needs rebuilding but bolted up the eddelbrock as it was on the engine and I didn't have to mess with it to get it to run.

No I left the edels "stock" for now... but they are designed for a big block 425-455 not a 403-350 small block, you can use them but the fuel isn't the issue, the combustion chamber is too big. You would need to take the heads to a machine shop and have them deck them to bring the chamber CCs down to small block specs! I had an edelbrock carb on my 307 and loved it, still have it and intend to use it on my moms 350 olds in her '73 88 royale, I also have a 750 edel on my '72boattail Riviera. I like edel carbs for their drivability and out of the box peformance but IMHO you will always be able to tune for more power with a holly based unit, thats why I went with a 830cfm Quickfuel technologies carb(basicaly a aluminum dressed holly). As far as the bodywork stuff goes, if you were in western Pa I could point you in a good direction(namely mine! ) but if your looking localy in chicago, your on your own. My recomendation would be do the metalwork yourself ... read books get help from friends and learn how to weld, its a good skill to know. Just make sure your gaps are good and most decent body shops can take it from there, it will save you some dough and you'll feel tlike the core of the build was your doing, which is a good feeling!

 

[ksmitty]

I just read on eddelbrocks site and Keith Miller racing site that those heads will work on 350 and 403 engines by port matching eddelbrocks rpm intake manifold #7111. Which is the intake manifold I have. Are they saying the intake manifold needs machine work or the heads need machine work? Do you know how I would find out what degree the timing should be with my set up. And do you think spark plugs would matter or make a difference. There were a few things I just didn't know. I think the timing is at 5 degrees before vacuum advance hooked up right now.

 

[hotrodoldsman]

I just read on eddelbrocks site and Keith Miller racing site that those heads will work on 350 and 403 engines by port matching eddelbrocks rpm intake manifold #7111. Which is the intake manifold I have. Are they saying the intake manifold needs machine work or the heads need machine work?

From the Edelbrock site
Performer RPM Olds

Designed for high-performance non-emission 1965-76 Olds 400, 425 and 455 c.i.d. V8s
Dual quench areas for a more efficient burn, outstanding hp and torque
Valvetrain has been upgraded from the factory pedestal-mount system to an ARP 7/16" screw-in stud and 3/8" pushrod-slot guideplate for increased valvetrain stability
#60517 is not port matched or bowl blended and is NHRA-accepted for Stock and Super Stock (except 1968-1969 W-30)

Technical Notes: Head bolt holes drilled for stock 7/16" bolts, but can be easily modified for 1/2" bolts or studs by drilling the 1/2" counterbore. Aftermarket 7/16"-stud rocker arms and 3/8" hardened pushrods required. Will fit 350-403 Olds with Edelbrock manifold #7111 only (port matching required).



I know for a fact that the combustion chamber CCs are too much for a small block out of the box, and I am willing to bet that the intake ports dont line up just right either before or after milling the heads(also, keep in mind that the machine shop can port match either one, personaly I prefer to grind the cheaper part). But I never messed with it personaly, but I considered going the small block route before my 455, and came to a conclusion... why should I buy all the same parts, have more machine work done to them, and probably in the end make less power, only to save buying a $500-$700 core 455 block? I had a 350 engine already as well. If you are set on keeping the small block, I wouldn't spend the money on edelbrock heads only to cut them down to work on a small block, I'd get a good set of iron heads from a small block ported and flow benched. They will probably out flow the edels out of the box #s anyway... JMHO

 

[ksmitty]

the set of heads I have 1970 #6 are suppose to be very good heads. I learned #5 are best choice followed by #6 than # 7after that they are not good.They have had work done to them just not sure what. Some guys have said by the time you pay to have the machine work done its the same cost as getting the eddys and still cant get them to flow as good. I was told the ones I have flow 180 cfm if thats correct I don't know. Out of the box the eddys flow around 250cfm I think. And yes I want the SB to stay in it. Also according to eddelbrock I can get 397 hp from that motor I think thats not reality but I am no engine expert either.I would be happy with 350hp or so. right now its at around 300hp. I really dont have a lot of money in this motor as far as motor cost go. Paid $1500 for motor, 350 trans,eddy 1407 carb, msd 6 AL ignition, headers, holly 650 cfm carb. The guy who had it got it from his uncle in a 1970 cutlass S. The uncle had the Motor built a few years back. And this guy is Putting A LS6 motor in the 1970 Cutlass S. So I don't mind putting more cash in the motor if I can improve it.

 

[gp02a0083]

guess im gonna hop on the bandwagon soon with a old 350, IIRC there are #5 5A and 5a heads (little A) either way it doesn't matter still the 350 will be a great improvement over the 307. every time i drive my 86 i get bummed out because its a v-8 that really only makes a lot of noise, fine for cruising i suppose,, but i'm thinking like smitty, i wanna go with the 350 eventually . keep us posted on how you are doing,

 

[CHRIS.O]

ksmitty,

Edelbrocks website says they flow 278 at .500. Keep in mind thats at .500 lift which depending on cam you wont be seeing that high flow number until you hit .500 lift. They are a good head but in my opinion your 6 heads would be better for what your doing. Those eddys are damn pricey for what your getting but they are really your only option in aftermarket aluminum olds heads. Your looking at 1700 for the pair and then having headbolt holes opened up to 1/2 in plus the milling and the intake milled to match. Your over 2k now. You could have your 6's worked over with a full rebuild and port work and still be under 2k. So you can see in my opinion keep your heads, have them worked, get a decent cam and you will probably easily exceed your hp goal. Goodluck.

 

[hotrodoldsman]

ksmitty,

Edelbrocks website says they flow 278 at .500. Keep in mind thats at .500 lift which depending on cam you wont be seeing that high flow number until you hit .500 lift. They are a good head but in my opinion your 6 heads would be better for what your doing. Those eddys are damn pricey for what your getting but they are really your only option in aftermarket aluminum olds heads. Your looking at 1700 for the pair and then having headbolt holes opened up to 1/2 in plus the milling and the intake milled to match. Your over 2k now. You could have your 6's worked over with a full rebuild and port work and still be under 2k. So you can see in my opinion keep your heads, have them worked, get a decent cam and you will probably easily exceed your hp goal. Goodluck.

I didnt have to open up the bolt holes or do anything to the intake to use the edels, and I got my set for around $1500(But also had to buy ford roller rockers & custom lenth pushrods)... in my case I got my 455 as a short block(no heads), by the time I would have bought a core set of decent big block olds cylinder heads and had them even just checked out, I was close enough to the cost of the edels that it was a good choice for me. But, had I been in ksmittys situation, I definitly would spend the cash getting the #6 heads worked! It wouldnt suprise me one bit if ksmitty puts some decent money into flow benching his heads, that his 350 makes more power than my 455! :shock: I still have some tuning to do, but I made 347 Rwhp on the dyno last year, not that far off! :lol:

 

[ksmitty]

Im so confused. I read older post from people who had ported there heads and said they regreted it after wards because all the money they spent still did not get there heads to flow as good as the eddys. So now you guys are saying I can have my cast heads reworked and get them to flow as good as the eddys or better? any Idea how much the machine work would cost ? I have a lead on a set of cast 1969 # 5 heads that I'm told have bigger valves and the choice to have if going with cast. So if I'm gonna have heads reworked it would be those. Rocket racing sells a kit with heads, intake ,gaskets etc. for $2695

ROCKET RACING OLDSMOBILE CYLINDER HEADS
TOP END PACKAGES SET UP FOR .......
FLAT TAPPET OR HYD. ROLLER CAMSHAFT $2695.00
1 PAIR OF ROCKET RACING CYLINDER HEADS. COMPLETE READY TO BOLT ON. THIS PACKAGE INCLUDES SPRINGS,LOCKS, RETAINERS, STUDS,GUIDEPLATES, AND VALVES.
1 ROCKET RACING INTAKE MANIFOLD
2 SETS OF ROCKET RACING INTAKE GASKETS
INCLUDES THE VALLEY TRAY
SOLID ROLLER CAMSHAFT $3065.00

any body know what the cost of porting and flow benching would cost ?

 

[CHRIS.O]

What I am saying is if you only want 350 crank horse then you dont need edelbrock heads. As far as cost for flow benching and porting, its not cheap. I dont think you need to have a whole lot of work done though. 1 horsepower per cube is pretty easy to get now a days. You should only need a bowl job, little clean up work on the ports and a nice cam and headers. Shoot the stock numbers on a 70-72 has to be atleast 300hp now right?

 

[ksmitty]

I called a local speed shop/ machine shop and asked them about porting and bench flowing my heads. The guy told me if I insisted he could refer me to someone who could do it for me but he didn't recommend it. He said why put money into 40 year old technology. That I would never be able to Make them as good as the newer aluminum heads, that you cant damage to where there not fixable. He said it would cost me almost as much as buying the eddys. I have already done as much to the motor as I can except the heads. Headers, rpm intake, msd ignition system, comp cam, eddy carb and only at around 300 hp. So I have to do something with the heads. I don't like the idea of spending so much on heads but don't see another choice if I want more hp. I guess thats why people build chevy's theres more choices and cheaper