Are G-Bodies the "New" Classics?

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Muscle cars were cheap in the 80s because they were viewed as being outdated. The oil crisis from the 70s was still a big concern in the 80s and people avoided gas guzzlers which they viewed musclecars as. Over the years such concerns faded from public memory Which allowed a mythos to develop around muscle cars. Similar thing happened 10 years ago with SUVs.

I think for many people, the main source of value from old objects like old cars is not so much low cost or performance, its nostagia. 60s and 70s cars have more nostagia than 80s cars in general.

 

[UNGN]

Well I can certainly agree that GNs were able to make the jump, but I think that's because the Turbo Buicks were the only ones that had enough of a special appeal to them, especially in their moment in time. Just like the muscle cars before them, they were a new and unique experience to the general public that happened at just the right moment in history. But if you look at a Monte Carlo SS, it was just a good car for the time. A '98 Grand Prix GTP was a good car for its time too. But what sort of memorable splash did they make?

While I'm talking to you about Mopar E-bodies, and since I've realized that I technically don't have a meaningful point with all of this:
Just for curiosity's sake (because I like old Challengers), back in the '80s and '90s was there anything you could do to an E-body to make it handle better? Any readily available springs, shocks, bushings, etc? Was there a hot set of tires to have?

If you showed up at a car show with a stock restored 1986 El Camino with a Choo Choo customs SS conversion or a HO, you would get as many people looking at it as ANY other stock restored muscle car. You can't bolt in a big block or a TT LS motor into a GP GTP, so the lack of "personalization" will prevent cars like that from achieving the cult status that the Tri 5 chevys or 60's mustangs achieved.

As for making a Mopar handle, you can make them handle in a parking lot autocross and they will bounce you off the road and kill you on the street. Stiffer torsion bars, more leafs in back, larger sway bars and good tires and handling on a pool table smooth surface was excellent. Throw a bump at it and its spinning through the grass backwards. The other issues are the unit bodies are so flexible, you basically have to cage the car and tie in the front shock towers into the cage. The current "high performance" suspensions throw everything away and start from scratch. With coils in front and something other than multiple leafs in back.

Its way more money to make a classic Mopar handle than a G-body.

 

[Canon_Mutant]

The sticker price on my 442 in late '86 was $15,700. Which reminds me, I need to find that [duh]! Oh I've got it here somewhere? Oh, it's in the safety deposit box. [Sorry thinking out loud on line] Given the trade difference for my quite nice '84 Supreme, I think the actual price was likely about $14,600 out the door. I've got $6500 in the big block I built myself and Bowtie transmission I bought 12 years ago, $3000 in the suspension/steering mods, $1500 in the bigger Wilwood fronts and drum to disk rears, $3200 in new wheels [ya, I know, 😵 but they are PURDY!], $750 in W-rated Bridgestones, about $1K total in the blasted, coated, and rebuilt rear end, $1K in the new sound system, and leaving another $1K for the custom splitter and misc nuts/bolts stuff . . . so, I'll have about $32K total in it. After I'm sprinkled on the mountain, I am confident my executor will at least come close to recovering that or he frankly said he'll keep it and just pay the charitable contribution out of his pocket we have planned for the proceeds.

Now, "stock" 70 LS6, 69 Z28, 67 Stump Puller Vette, 70 Cudas and Challengers and the 69 Charger, occasionally a really nice W30 442 along with others are all 6 figure cars so, if that is what it takes to mean classic, except for an occasional GNX, we may never get G-bodies there.

That said, I'll have $32K in a car that still looks new, will outrun, out corner, and out stop all the above "in their stock form" and I intend that to include the Vette and Z28 "with their stock setups" that you cannot change or you devalue the car. Though it was just a well done clone, I've driven a 67 427 Vette and with the extremely tall rear gears and narrow tires the thing was about unusable. All of that weight on the front end and no straight line or lateral traction with those extremely tall gears ~ 4000rpm at 75? And a local friend with a stock suspended, wheeled, and 215/70 BFG TA'd 69 Z28 was impressed with how my car handled with the stock F41 and the by then 235/60s.

Now, if I wanted to dominate the GTV class, I would NOT start with a G-body but making one look amazingly intense, perform damn respectably, while being unmistakably unique? Priceless . . .

But, that's just me . . . anyone can build a '70 Camaro! Of course, I do need to actually finish mine before death do us part . . . details!

 

[motorheadmike]

The last thing I am worried about is momentary value. The experience is what I work for. Who gives a crap how much it is worth if it is worthless to drive or own?

Perfect cars are more frustration than fun to own. Mechanically unique cars are impossible to service and maintain (Turbo Buicks I am looking at you) for regular people. Got 1000hp? Who cares! Driving a fast car slow is torture.

A simple RWD car with a V8 making the right noises and sensations is what most guys want. Getting caught up in a dick measuring contest is counterproductive.

Buy a base model G-body and build it into your vision.

 

[DRIVEN]

"Classic" means different things to different people. Most Gbodys won't be collectible and aren't a good investment. My car is only worth more now because I bought a really nice one cheap. But I bought it for sentimental reasons, not for investment purposes. If I'd put that money in the market 10 years ago it would have done way better than investing in a Gbody. I'd certainly treat a low mile GN, Hurst or 442 differently than I'd treat my car or most other base Gs.

The collector angle has been touched on. Many car "collectors" aren't necessarily car guys. A (very wealthy) guy I know got into cars about 10 years ago. He moved about a million dollars from the market into collectible cars. A couple years ago he sold off a few and traded the rest for a very nice boat (yacht). Probably trippled his money and avoided some taxes. It wasn't an emotional thing like how car guys view it -- strictly business. He moved his money from markets that were shrinking to markets that were booming. He bought and sold businesses and real estate too.
My point is that classic/collectible means nostalgia to some while it means profit to others.

 

[UNGN]

I keep going back to classic mopars, because in recent history, they were literally worthless. Even into the 2000's, nobody wanted B-bodies.

A nicely restored big block Charger or Road runner would go begging for $17K, while E-bodies were double/triple that.

Then Fast and Furious happened and overnight, everyone wanted a '69 Charger.

One of my son's friend's dad bought a '69 Charger RT for $45K. I'm envisioning a rotisserie restoration and when he pulls up in a POS that in the late 1990's early 2000's was a $4,500 car. I about puked. WTF? $45K? really?

My son's friend was bragging how fast it was and how it needed "race gas"... yea open chamber Iron heads will do that.

"neat" was as polite as I could get. My kid was asking me "why couldn't we get something that cool?".

Because we're not idiots.

 

[mclellan83]

I keep going back to classic mopars, because in recent history, they were literally worthless. Even into the 2000's, nobody wanted B-bodies.

A nicely restored big block Charger or Road runner would go begging for $17K, while E-bodies were double/triple that.

Then Fast and Furious happened and overnight, everyone wanted a '69 Charger.

One of my son's friend's dad bought a '69 Charger RT for $45K. I'm envisioning a rotisserie restoration and when he pulls up in a POS that in the late 1990's early 2000's was a $4,500 car. I about puked. WTF? $45K? really?

My son's friend was bragging how fast it was and how it needed "race gas"... yea open chamber Iron heads will do that.

"neat" was as polite as I could get. My kid was asking me "why couldn't we get something that cool?".

Because we're not idiots.

I unfortunately have always wanted a 69 Charger since I watched Dukes of Hazard as a kid, I wanted to do it different when I was saving up in high school for a car. Envisioned doing hydraulics and a newer motor for reliability at that time my dad said it wasn't possible and I was crazy, little did I know I was trying to pro tour a car 20 years before it was really what it would be now. But you are right, no way I would ever spend what they are asking for a Charger rat trap these days. Was kicking around the 72 Road Runner idea but even though are starting to climb, oh how things would be so much easier if I had a sugar mama.

 

[jakes87SS]

love mine cant wait to finish the suspension rebuild and wheels so i can get onto the drivetrain

 

[84 W40]

I had a similar discussion not to long ago about future cars in the next 20 years with a few close friends of mine that have a large private collection of cars, I just have very small collection and we started to talk about gbody cars. I have restored many muscle cars in the past 35 years but I stopped doing it 16 years ago and I will explain why later on. Are the gbody cars the new classic, my opinion yes. Will they start increasing in value in the next five years, yes but slowly and talking about the non performance models. The performance models have been increaseing in value in the last five years but the low mileage all original survivor cars with a pet degree or original paper work when new will increase even faster and thats what a private collector is looking for. They dont want GN that has been heavily modified with 1000 HP under the hood. Who will buy these cars in the next 5-10 years a person thats between 40-60 years of age. Why same reason the baby boomers are buying muscle cars and what dictates a value of a car is supply and demand. All gbody cars are great to modify and there are plenty of them and still plenty of original parts at the junk yard. A gbody with a F41 suspension handled much better than stock muscle car trust me.

Why i stopped restoring muscle cars its more cost effective to buy a low mileage survivor cars.

 

[csstrux]

"It's a box", said my ex-wife.

That is about my wife's assessment! 😉