Buick 231 V6

[King_V]

I'd often wondered about this.... I was told that the FWD 3.8 FI V6 (prior to the change to the 3800) could not be bolted in longitudinally, and that something about where the trans bolts up would prevent the use of a RWD trans (which I would say would probably have had to have been a 60-degree 700-R4)

I have the Mass Air Flow sensor and computer from a 1986 Olds Delta 88 (DIS), which to me always felt a little more powerful than 1987 and 1988 variants of the same motor (maybe the MAF, mine was straight, whereas others I'd seen were hourglass shaped?)

So, for those of you with experience, what's involved in getting a FWD 3.8 V6 (pre-3800, and preferably DIS) into a G body? I'm really curious, as this is something I'd been interested in a few years back.

 

[jetsetw31]

I'd often wondered about this.... I was told that the FWD 3.8 FI V6 (prior to the change to the 3800) could not be bolted in longitudinally, and that something about where the trans bolts up would prevent the use of a RWD trans (which I would say would probably have had to have been a 60-degree 700-R4)

I have the Mass Air Flow sensor and computer from a 1986 Olds Delta 88 (DIS), which to me always felt a little more powerful than 1987 and 1988 variants of the same motor (maybe the MAF, mine was straight, whereas others I'd seen were hourglass shaped?)

So, for those of you with experience, what's involved in getting a FWD 3.8 V6 (pre-3800, and preferably DIS) into a G body? I'm really curious, as this is something I'd been interested in a few years back.

The big differences between the FWD 3.8 and the RWD 3.8 are as follows-
The blocks are different.
The heads are slightly different but could work. The FWD heads were used in the '89 3.8 Turbo Trans Am.(The last car to use the RWD block.)
The crankshaft is different at the transmission end.
But the FWD 3800 has been used in a RWD car. The '93- '02 Fbody uses the FWD 3800 in automatic and manual transmissions. Thats the only one. The auto trans used is a special made TH 700R4/4L60 that has a removable bell housing. The rest of the trans is the same as a normal 700R4/4L60.
So to do a FWD 3.8 or 3800 engine swap into a Gbody, this is the trans you have to use.
T

 

[King_V]

How about mounting it? Are there provisions on the FWD 3.8 block to use the RWD 3.8's motor mounts? Or do you have to fabricate your own?

(again, for clarification, I'm talking about the 88-and-earlier engine, VIN code 3, and not the 3800 engine).

 

[jetsetw31]

How about mounting it? Are there provisions on the FWD 3.8 block to use the RWD 3.8's motor mounts? Or do you have to fabricate your own?

(again, for clarification, I'm talking about the 88-and-earlier engine, VIN code 3, and not the 3800 engine).

None. You will have to fabricate up some mounts to make it work.

 

[King_V]

I figured that might be the case... bummer!

 

[King_V]

Hey, another question on this topic.....

Would almost the same thing be possible with a RWD block, because, isn't the 3-code FWD 3.8 essentially the same, in terms of sensors, etc., as the turbo SEFI V6, except:
- No turbo (duh!)
- Roller cam/lifters

So, basically, wouldn't an ordinary 109 RWD 3.8 block, if fitted with provisions for a crank position sensor, a cam position sensor in place of the distributor, a retrofit roller cam/lifters set (say similar to what was in the FWD cars), and essentially all the gizmos of the FWD 3.8 or the turbo 3.8 (of which I understand there's NOT a large number of parts), in effect, be the same thing (and in my view, what GM *should* have done back then, anyway).

Added bonus is that the block would natively accept the 90-degree BOP transmission bellhousings.

Thoughts? Would that be the easier way to get the equivalent of the SEFI FWD 3.8 engine in a RWD car? Other than the expense of the roller cam/lifters retrofit, of course.

 

[jetsetw31]

Hey King V, Basically your right. But I learned that the RWD block was never a roller cam engine. I was like What???? I could have sworn that the turbo 3.8 Had a roller cam. The roller showed up in 1986 on FWD motors only! I'm not sure if it can be swapped to the RWD block. I know the aftermarket has hydraulic rollers for the RWD block. I'm gonna find out if it can be swapped today. I'll get back to you.
T

 

[jetsetw31]

I do know that only the turbo block had provisions for the same sensors as the FWD block. I found that out when i did my FI conversion.

 

[King_V]

Hmm . . odd, but in 1986 and later, didn't both the N/A and the Turbo use the same block?

Just looking at the block numbers on this page.... for 1986 and 1987 (and turbo trans am in 1989)

 

[YGspider]

It is rather strange that the GN never got the roller motor treatment, But I can see why... GM had no time to upgrade the 109 in the GN because the car was going out of production by the time they started thinking about roller cams.. And the TTA was just left over Buick GN motors from 87. As of now I'm putting together a fully roller 3.8 but it's going to be turbo and that's the only way to really make a 3.8 quick. Maybe if you convert to a L67 from a firebird or Camaro you could get some good power out of the modern 3800.