Buick 4.1L vs Oldsmobile 4.3L

[King_V]

I wouldn't say that - now I've driven some 307s that had clearly NOT been maintained, and though "Man, my 3.8L Regal is about as as fast as this"

On the other hand, I remember driving a 1985 Delta 88 with the roller 307 that had a surprising amount of kick to it. Maybe it had optional gearing, or maybe the motor was just in great shape.

But, yeah, the roller 307 was all about get as much power and torque right off idle as possible.

Still, it wasn't entirely fair - had the 307 even gotten throttle-body injection they probably could've eliminated quite a bit of vacuum hose and gained some torque. Had they done SEFI along the lines of the front drive 3.8 engines, and I'm thinking even the "simpler" ones from 1986-1988 - prior to the 3800 series, the engine would've been quite impressive, especially for its time.

Eh, lack of knowledge at the time? Lack of foresight? Rushed band-aid solutions? Probably a little of everything.

I will admit that, while I don't like the fact that the Chevy V8s got "favorite son" status, they were less bulky and lighter than the SBO.

 

[olds307 and 403]

Suposedly the sbc was heavier than the Olds V8. Newer casting technology, despite being much wider.

 

[King_V]

Damn, I'd never known that. It was obvious through observation that the Olds was physically larger, but I'd always thought (and heard) that it was also heavier, and the weight savings played a part in GM's decision to go with Chevy.

Of course the 307s better low end torque was why it wound up in the wagons instead of the 305....


Got any numbers on years/weights of 305 vs 307 of the era? Gotta add this to my repertoire of knowledge on this stuff.

 

[olds307 and 403]

Supposedly the 77-up non diesel SBO weighed 530 pounds. Older version 560 and sbc 575.

 

[King_V]

So . . uh . . . why did GM go with the SBC as the corporate V8 rather than the SBO?

Yeah, there's a touch of sarcasm in that question...

 

[olds307 and 403]

Corvette and trucks. GM cancelled Pontiac because of the GMC heavy truck line. Plus the sbc wasn't Shitty once the 80's hit.

 

[jetsetw31]

All through the 80s, The 305 was trying to catch the 307's power and efficiency. The car that proves this is the mid to late 80s Cadilliac with the 307. The 5.0 fleetwood had a great take off for a 4000+ pound car! Chevy had to go to EFI to top the 307's power and torque with a Q-jet.

Olds engineers dropped the ball for decades on motor design, states to the case why they were swallowed up by the Chevy platform not long after these cars were in production.

Olds Small block engines were ALWAYS GM's most efficient V8 motors!
The only reason that there were 305s in Olds cars was price not performance or fuel milage. The 307 cost more than the 305 back then and the 260 was cheaper.

Thats why Caddy never used chevy until the 307 was canceled in 90. The 307 sbo was GM's last carburated V8 because of it's DESIGN and EFFICIENCY. With EFI, it coulda run circles around the 305!!! OLDs engines made great diesels, why? because of their DESIGN!!!
Oldsmobile designed great motors. They did the Quad 4 from scratch. A engine that still holds GM's high power record at 192 hp from a NA production engine to this day. They helped Caddy design the Northstar. (witch is essentially 2 Quad 4s put together.)
Lets get it straight guys. OK Rant is over :wink:
The Buick 4.1 is the better motor compared to the Olds 260. But these motors were built for 2 different reasons. The 4.1 was built for increased torque to move bigger cars. The 260 was the opposite.
In power the 4.1 wins. In efficiency the 260 wins.

 

[olds307 and 403]

Olds should have put the 403 in a 78 Cutlass to start. They also should have put their EFI as an option for the whole line up. Instead of dumping it in the 80's big bore gutted TBI , CCC distributor , proper fuel hoses and updated computer would have made their MPFI awesome. Imagine 9 to 1 or better, roller cams and EFI could have even pushed 200 hp out of a 260 but it was not meant to be.

 

[King_V]

200hp out of the 260 might've been overly optimistic, at least in the 80s....

But think about this.... in 1986
231 V6
Roller cam
DIS
Sequential Injection

That got 200 net ft-lbs and 150 net horsepower. It was used in the luxury FWD cars like the Delta 88, LeSabre, etc., but also in the lower-level cars such as the Ciera and Century.

Apply even the same type of intake manifold design, but just for an Olds V8, the same type of DIS, relatively modest roller cam, and a 4-point crank trigger wheel rather than the 3-point version that was used for the V6s.

Even if it produced the same horsepower, or maybe slightly more, with a 260, the torque would've been greater. I'm guessing maybe 10-15 horse and ft-lbs more than the 231 produced at the time.

Applying it to the 307 would've been amazing for the era - and the Olds 350 would've been better still.


But .. well . . they didn't ask us.

 

[Matman1490]

my advanced age may be showing...

but, what exactly is a 'brake stand'...?? :?: